Calgarypuck Prospect Ranking 2016 - Round 2

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

i like Gilles, but goalies are so hard to project to the NHL...

Kylington is a guy that definitely has the highest ceiling of the remaining skaters...the brodie comparisons are really exciting, but still need to check expectations on him...

The two main reasons why he fell out of the top 5 was due to his lack of defensive progression in his draft year and his attitude.

In the 1 year since he's been drafted, not only have those attitude problems evaporated, but his defensive problems are going away as well. He has learned not to need to do everything himself, which is where a lot of the problems came from. On the attitude side, he is a very confident person that can come off as being arrogant to some, but that was blown out of proportion heavily. He was down to earth every time I talked with him. Very much a normal guy. Bit of a joker as well.

So if the two factors that caused him to fall have been marginalized entirely, then you're looking at a top 5 talent that the Flames lucked out to get at 60. Checking expectations on any prospect is a wise course of action, prove it before you believe it, but there is no real reason why he shouldn't be looked at as being a potentially special player.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

The two main reasons why he fell out of the top 5 was due to his lack of defensive progression in his draft year and his attitude.

In the 1 year since he's been drafted, not only have those attitude problems evaporated, but his defensive problems are going away as well. He has learned not to need to do everything himself, which is where a lot of the problems came from. On the attitude side, he is a very confident person that can come off as being arrogant to some, but that was blown out of proportion heavily. He was down to earth every time I talked with him. Very much a normal guy. Bit of a joker as well.

So if the two factors that caused him to fall have been marginalized entirely, then you're looking at a top 5 talent that the Flames lucked out to get at 60. Checking expectations on any prospect is a wise course of action, prove it before you believe it, but there is no real reason why he shouldn't be looked at as being a potentially special player.

definitely glad to hear it... i think that kids have to be pretty self confident to get to the level of getting drafted - it sounds like Oliver might have been a bit more brash than what others were used too. But as he adjusts to the NA game and the rigors of being a pro, he has to understand that he needs to buckle down even more now that he is only a step away from the league.

one thing i am glad about it his friendship with Oduya... having a pro and a stanley cup winner at that, as a friend and a mentor can only be a good thing for Oliver...

[Samonadreau]

Crazy Andersson's perceived stock has dropped so much in the last week. Not his potential but his stock for CP posters. And rightfully so but a week ago he would have grabbed way more votes even in the #2 poll.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Crazy Andersson's perceived stock has dropped so much in the last week. Not his potential but his stock for CP posters. And rightfully so but a week ago he would have grabbed way more votes even in the #2 poll.

His stock for me hasn't dropped. He's still firmly inside my top 5.

Tkachuk
Jankowski
Gillies
Andersson
Kylington

Conditioning is one of the easiest things for a hockey player to correct. There are millions of dollars on the line here, I'm thinking that he gets that part figured out sooner rather than later. I think the expectation that he would get the message one year after being drafted was being overly optimistic. He's a talented kid who has played very, very well in the OHL... maybe it has come too easy for him thus far? A reality lesson against men in 16/17 should help him figure it out. I'll start worrying if he's still gassed at next year's camp or it's a well documented issue throughout his first pro year.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

His stock for me hasn't dropped. He's still firmly inside my top 5.

Tkachuk
Jankowski
Gillies
Andersson
Kylington

Conditioning is one of the easiest things for a hockey player to correct. There are millions of dollars on the line here, I'm thinking that he gets that part figured out sooner rather than later. I think the expectation that he would get the message one year after being drafted was being overly optimistic. He's a talented kid who has played very, very well in the OHL... maybe it has come too easy for him thus far? A reality lesson against men in 16/17 should help him figure it out. I'll start worrying if he's still gassed at next year's camp or it's a well documented issue throughout his first pro year.

100% agree and I share the exact top 5. I guess we'll see how the individually ranking votes shake down. I believe a week ago if you had a poll who is our top D prospect Andersson would have won (a good chance anyway). Now he may get voted 3rd. I still have him 1st. If he gets his conditioning in order he will be a beast.

[GGG]

I like that top 5 just swapping Kylingrin and Gillies.

Jankowski here as I think he has potential to be a top second line centre in the league and of our higher end prospects the highest likelyhood of getting there outside of Tkachuk.

Then Kylingrin
Gilles
Andersson

Then the older boarder line nhl guys.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by GGG

I like that top 5 just swapping Kylingrin and Gillies.

Jankowski here as I think he has potential to be a top second line centre in the league and of our higher end prospects the highest likelyhood of getting there outside of Tkachuk.

Then Kylingrin
Gilles
Andersson

Then the older boarder line nhl guys.

Who?

Yeah, I agree with you. If Bennett/Janko can play left wing, I'd love to see this line in the future:

Bennett - Jankowski - Brouwer

There's so much win on that line. Maybe we can slot in Kylingrin on defense with Kylington combined with that forward line, that can be a PP unit right there.

[FireGilbert]

Went with Kylington. I seem to recall he was considered a top 5 prospect at one point in his draft year and it is amazing for a defenceman to make their NHL debut at 19.

Interesting to see Jankowski in the lead (although ~60% of CP agrees he shouldn't be). Is it a name recognition/first rounder thing or did he actually look like the best prospect in his limited time in Stockton? To be fair I know very little about the prospects and that wheel spinning monkey would likely be better at ranking them than me.

[N26]

Originally Posted by FiveSeven

Well it really depends on how you value these players.

In what order do you put the most value in when you vote?

NHL Readiness?
Current skill level?
Potential?
Trends?
Odds of success?

'

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoeix
For me it is something like this

1) Potential
2) Odds of success
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3) Current skill level
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4) NHL readiness

not sure what you mean by 'trends'

If it means what I feel it means then 'trends' is my most important ranking decider. I call it 'checking all the boxes'

By this I mean once they have been drafted do they progress through the stages successfully. Here is some examples of the boxes:

- improvement in draft +1 year in strengths (ie goal scorers should score more goals)
- improvement in draft+1 year in perceived weaknesses (ie defensive defenseman shows some offense)
- if playing an overage (CHL) year or Jr/Sr (NCAA) do they dominate to the level a top player should. An example of someone checking this box would be Austin Carroll in his overage year.
-if in Europe do they make the jump to a higher league. Such as a Swede leaving juniors and making an Allsvenskan or SHL team or a Russian progressing VHL->MHL->KHL
- a satisfactory rookie season in at a new level such as rookie season in the AHL
- are they progressing physically (getting stronger, filling in their frame etc)
- are they gaining valuable experience like being on teams that make long playoff runs or playing in important tournements like the World Jrs
- if in a second (or more) year of minor pro are they improving (counting stats, role on team, positive reports on their play etc)
- do they have leadership roles at the appropriate times and do those teams excel then?
- if called up to the Flames how do they do? Is it positive? For example Hathaway and Kulak yes but Poirier was meh.

There are more and I've never completely written them out and organized them but they're in my mind when I make a list. Of course no player can really check all the boxes because all are not available to them. But are the checking the ones that are in front of them I ask myself. Plus some advance quickly and skip boxes such as Monahan, Gaudreau and Bennett never playing in the AHL. In making my list this year I am asking myself if Tkachuk is one of those players (not quite i think, he's #3 on my list and going back to London where he will have a lot of box checking opportunities)

To me this is what makes a good team and good players. I see all those Red Wing and Lightning players with strong progressions and I want to see it in our teams because as has been so well proven a bunch of high-draft choice prospects with sky-high potential can mean very little.

[Bingo]

that's enough of a gap to call Jankowski the winner without a run off in my mind.

New poll up soon!

[Vinny01]

Even though it was close I am shocked Jankowski won this poll. I don't think he cracks my top 5 on the Flames list. Tkachuk, Gillies, Shinkaruk, Kylington, Andersen, Mangipane, and possibly Hickey are ahead of him on my list.

Very surprised he is this highly thought of at this stage of development

[N26]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Even though it was close I am shocked Jankowski won this poll. I don't think he cracks my top 5 on the Flames list. Tkachuk, Gillies, Shinkaruk, Kylington, Andersen, Mangipane, and possibly Hickey are ahead of him on my list.

Very surprised he is this highly thought of at this stage of development

I have him 8th

[dissentowner]

Interesting observation I always see on these polls is whatever Bingo votes the other moderators vote the same. Probably just coincidence but still interesting.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Interesting observation I always see on these polls is whatever Bingo votes the other moderators vote the same. Probably just coincidence but still interesting.

They know who pays their salary, lol.

[Red Menace]

Jankowski at 2 is quite the stretch, I dare say that any neutral observer of our prospect pool would not have him in the top 5.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

Jankowski at 2 is quite the stretch, I dare say that any neutral observer of our prospect pool would not have him in the top 5.

I think the bias is that he's a polarizing prospect who appears to have done what it takes to make the NHL this year. So definitely some excitement bias in the results, but there's also some potential with his size filling out that he could legitimately become a top 6 centre with size and skill.

[jayswin]

I went with Jankowski partially out of excitement myself, and group think, which wasn't the correct vote when I think about it.

If I was listing prospects in order of who I think will be the best players throughout their careers it would probably be:

Tkachuk
Kylington
Gillies
Jankowski
Hickey

I wouldn't even be surprised to see Kylington become the best of all our current prospects, not at all surprised. But I'm giving Tkachuk the benefit of the doubt to his draft position.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

Jankowski at 2 is quite the stretch, I dare say that any neutral observer of our prospect pool would not have him in the top 5.

Here's a neutral observer who has him in our top 5.

Either way, I'm not sure how a Flames bias would affect a ranking of Flames prospects relative to other Flames prospects.

[jayswin]

Still can't believe we got Kylington at 60 OA. Just insane that there was talk of top 10, then top 20, then on draft day.....he just fell like a rock.

It was almost like we got a top 15 pick after giving up our first rounder for Hamilton. One of the best draft's in Flames history, imo, including trades on draft day, obviously.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Here's a neutral observer who has him in our top 5.

Either way, I'm not sure how a Flames bias would affect a ranking of Flames prospects relative to other Flames prospects.

Interesting that you used the phrase "relative to other Flames".