Travelling to North Korea

[worth]

The problem I have with traveling to the DPRK is that you are putting money directly in the pocket of the government. The DPRK have realised that this is a cash cow for them. They want more tourists. In fact, they are hoping to attract 2 million tourists by 2020.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/de...lion-tourists/

So 2 million tourists each infusing thousands of dollars directly into the government run by a lunatic.

Maybe i'm a bit of a hypocrite, I traveled to Turkmenistan, which is basically North Korea 2.0, but I was able to eat in local restaurants, spend my money in the local bazaars while seeing a beautiful and interesting country and people and at the same time expanding my concept of the world.

[CaptainCrunch]

Its not even like you're putting hands in the government. All of that money goes into one room in their foreign ministry building and it goes towards buying luxury goods for Kim, and for his entourage as he tries to curry favor and friendship.

For the North Korean's for the most part when they do trade, its either an exchange of workers who cut down trees and providing miners for China and Russia, or they trade what raw materials that they can slave out of the ground or their factories.

All of the tourist money is taken to what I think is called room 49, its laundered and used to buy watches, liquor, golf course grass. to bring in expertise to build palaces and to buy high end cars and more.

the other thing room 49 ( i think that's the numer) is to coordinate North Korea's smuggling and drug operations. Foreign representatives of the North Korea Government are almost expected to be the Mary Kay versions of drug dealers.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by worth

The problem I have with traveling to the DPRK is that you are putting money directly in the pocket of the government. The DPRK have realised that this is a cash cow for them. They want more tourists. In fact, they are hoping to attract 2 million tourists by 2020.

I had this moral debate when I had to go to Zimbabwe as part of an African Safari. I had to enter Zimbabwe 3 separate times meaning I enriched Mugabe way more than I wanted to on visas (there was no multiple entry visas for Canadians at the time).

However, once I got there and was putting money into the pockets of the average citizen I felt a lot better. The $10 I'd pay for lunch meant a hell of a lot to the lady at the market - income that would otherwise not be possible.

North Korea sounds like it' be different though, staying at "official" hotels and eating at "official" restaurants. Not sure how much of your money would be making it down to the local levels.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

I had this moral debate when I had to go to Zimbabwe as part of an African Safari. I had to enter Zimbabwe 3 separate times meaning I enriched Mugabe way more than I wanted to on visas (there was no multiple entry visas for Canadians at the time).

However, once I got there and was putting money into the pockets of the average citizen I felt a lot better. The $10 I'd pay for lunch meant a hell of a lot to the lady at the market - income that would otherwise not be possible.

North Korea sounds like it' be different though, staying at "official" hotels and eating at "official" restaurants. Not sure how much of your money would be making it down to the local levels.

Good observation, but it is different in North Korea unless you can find your way to the citizen black markets which well no chance.

You might eat at a restaurant there, but all the money is pretty much paid to the government.

Its as much of a fully realized command economy as there ever was.

[worth]

Do you even have to pay for anything once you're inside NK? I would think you pay your money to the tour operator and then everything is basically taken care of for you since you're herded around to different restaurants, the hotel and tourist attractions. Tourists probably don't even see what NK currency looks like.

[The Familia]

I have no problem with people travelling to wherever they want, so long as they don't go begging the country to save their ass if they find themselves in hot water. If you want to task the risk of going to a place like NK then you are on your own. Not a single tax dollar should go into a rescue. The same goes for all these "extreme" athletes who decide to ski out of bounds in avalanche territory. Fund your own rescue mission if you find yourself stranded.

[Harju]

Originally Posted by worth

Do you even have to pay for anything once you're inside NK? I would think you pay your money to the tour operator and then everything is basically taken care of for you since you're herded around to different restaurants, the hotel and tourist attractions. Tourists probably don't even see what NK currency looks like.

The trips are pretty much all-inclusive but you want money to buy snacks, bottled water, beer/alcohol, meals outside the standard program, tickets to special events such as the Mass Games etc. There are also lots of souvenirs to buy if you are so inclined. Generally, the souvenirs are the type you put away when you get home and then 2 years later when you clean out your closet you wonder why the hell you ever bought it.

Getting North Korea won seems hit and miss. It's available if you put in the effort. Some people do get it, others not. Euro is the main currency for tourists but RMB and USD are generally accepted.

[Harju]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

the other thing room 49 ( i think that's the numer) is to coordinate North Korea's smuggling and drug operations. Foreign representatives of the North Korea Government are almost expected to be the Mary Kay versions of drug dealers.

It's Room 39 aka Office 39, Bureau 39. The guys in Room 49 are probably up to no good too.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Harju

It's Room 39 aka Office 39, Bureau 39. The guys in Room 49 are probably up to no good too.

thanks, I was going off of memory of the books that I've read, but they're all consistent in terms of talking about their operations in terms of purchasing and raising money illegally.

The NK government is basically worse then any of the mafia groups out there.

[Fuzz]

http://www.earthnutshell.com/stoppin...ongyang-metro/
This guy was one of the firs tto be able to go to all the metro stations. Some cool pics.

[heep223]

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/li...st-fear-n32076

I for one would have a hard time going here to satisfy a need for "adventure".

[pylon]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Go up to a cop and ask in a loud voice with a russian accent where you can find the Nuclear Vessels.

I think you mean 'Wessels'.

[harmony]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

I'm headed to North Korea in a few weeks. I expect it to be an interesting experience to say the least.

I'm wondering if anyone here has been there and can give me any tips, travel hacks, or perhaps shed some light on some conflicting reports?

For instance some info on the internet says that tourists can now access the internet in North Korea by using government issued sim cards. Other articles state that cell phones will/could be confiscated at the border.

I'm curious if they will allow my Gopro into the country as well, and just how strict the tour guides are on photography. I've read in a few places that its not quite as bad as most articles state.

Anyone been there and want to offer up some advice?

I don't think that's contradictory. NK just changes their policies on a whim, so you never know what the hell is going on.

[CedarMeter]

Did Oil Stain make it back or is he doing 15 years hard labor. Or has he even gone yet?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by harmony

I don't think that's contradictory. NK just changes their policies on a whim, so you never know what the hell is going on.

I think they change their policies to suit their needs. Like do I need another western hostage for negotiation purposes right now. If they do they will make up anything and after a little persuasion the hostage will claim it's true.

[Oil Stain]

So I've been back for a little while but its summer and I haven't been successful in making time to post on a hockey message board until now.


I didn't end up in North Korean prison! It appears that you won't end up there just for being stupid or disrespectful either.

The Western guide that traveled with us in North Korea happened to be the guide of Otto Warmbier who is currently detained for stealing a poster. She didn't like to talk about it very much. What he did was a willful crime so that is why I believe he faced the repercussions he did. I heard a rumour in our tour group that there was more to the story than a stolen propaganda poster, so we will have to see if anything else comes out about the story when he is likely released in a few months.

Our guide did tell us some other stories that didn't result in being jailed. On one trip, a member of one of the tour groups got black out drunk and wandered away from a tourist site. He ended up forcing himself into a North Korean taxi somehow, and arrived back at the Yanggakdo International Tourist Hotel after being missing in action for 4 hours. He couldn't recall where he had been for those four hours.

Another member of a different tour group did a handstand to pose for a photo in the main square of the Palace of the Sun which is the mausoleum of Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il. It's an area where you are supposed to be on your most somber and respectful behaviour. The North Korean guides were mortified, but nothing happened to the tourist.

My friend and I took the train into and out of the country. We had to open our bags upon arrival and show them our electronics. They only looked at laptops and searched for files bigger than 100MBs. Presumably to look for The Interview movie files. They ignored my phone and go pro and didn't bother to look into anyone's bags.

On exit they didn't look through our bags at all. They did look through our phones and cameras for pictures. I didn't get anything deleted. My buddy had one pic deleted. He had failed to get an entire statue of one of the leaders into a photo. The arm was cut off. That's a no-no. We both had some stuff we weren't supposed to photograph on our cameras (etc, Members of military, construction) that were ignored/missed. They took my gopro but I believe they lack the ability to view it as I videoed out of the bus windows when I was supposed to constantly and all the footage was intact.

They gave us body pat downs on exit and looked through our wallets. My friend had some North Korean currency in his wallet our North Korean guide had given us after we had presented her with some gifts. She talked the border guard out of taking it.

That's what we heard about authorities and our experiences with them. I came to the conclusion that if you act like a normal human being who displays a little bit of respect you have nothing to fear in North Korea. There were hundreds of Western tourists staying in our hotel. Our group was over 50 people alone. We were there at the same time as a tour of Nobel Laureates and a Prince of Liechtenstein. So if the North Korea government was going to detain someone for purely political reasons they probably had better options than my friend and I.

As far as I could tell, life is going on in North Korea. They don't appear to be staging things for tourists lime some people believe/would have others believe. Its fairly normal outside of the major, obvious differences. The Hermit Kingdom is not "crazy" as portrayed in the media. The propaganda of which there is a lot is logical and serves a purpose. "Facts" about Kim Jung Il that circulate outside the DPRK, like he hit 7 holes in one during one golf game don't exist there.




Ok. Maybe a little crazy.


As for the country itself. Coming in on the train you travel through the fertile areas of North Korea (They prefer that you call it DPRK or simply Korea ), you definitely see some poverty. There wasn't much of anything to see except rice fields and small villages. The roads were all dirt, and you rarely saw a vehicle on them. The landscape was very hilly, and completely deforested. I'd say that the life of a farmer in the North would be akin to those you see in rural Asia (Vietnam, Thailand, Cambodia, etc.). There were power lines running to all the villages but we were told by Western guides that the electricity doesn't really run. Despite the obvious poverty people were dressed in clean clothing, and the roads, and villages were very clean and orderly. Military members are everywhere but the vast majority aren't armed and are doing mundane tasks such as working in the fields or construction. We actually saw very few guns in North Korea. Far fewer than say Latin America where every security guard has a combat shotgun. I was expecting more armed soldiers.





Pyongyang is a different story. For those 10% lucky enough to live in the capital it seems like life in North Korea has a lot more to offer. In the cities in general there is access to self improvement and recreation centres. Kids have access to attend after school programs to develop their hobbies. Everything is orderly and clean. It's pretty peaceful as well due to a lack of cars. Mostly everyone is walking or riding bicycles. You see a lot of people using cellphones. No internet of course. Everyone is dressed in pretty similar clothing with similar haircuts.




It feels very 1970's Soviet block. A lot of the apartment blocks have solar panels in the windows, so it looked like electricity may be a bit spotty in the city as well. The city was well lit up at night without interruption while we were there though. It was hard to identify restaurants and stores because they don't bother with advertisements or eye catchers. Everything was very plain. Most of the city looked like 70's era Soviet apartment blocks with monuments scattered throughout. A 105 story hotel they started building in the 80's and had to abandon in the mid 90's due to the famines towers over everything else. It is still not completed.


A new street was finished in 2013 that is very modern looking. It is the Science and Technology street. It is going to be the mecca for various scientists and scholars of North Korea. Kim Jung Un has placed heavy emphasis on education and technology since coming into power.




Science and Technology building. It was designed to look like an Atom. 7000 computers inside. There weren't very many people inside this building. A few hundred maybe, and only a fraction of the computers were being used. Some would say this is proof that the entire thing is staged for tourists. My belief is that North Koreans have very structured and busy lives. Their daily routine is filled with work, and "volunteer" activities such as practicing for special events/marches. Travel is an issue as well. Most is done on foot. The subway is extremely limited, buses are few and they have electric transit cars that are also few in number. So to just go hang out at the Science and Technology building after work is probably a monumental task to undertake for the average citizen.



Red tag on the seat Kim Jung Un sat upon:


Theatre for viewing scientific movies. Someone was watching a Kung Fu film. We had a good laugh with our Korean guides over it.








Earthquake simulation room.


For the kids: Our Korean guide kept trying to kick them out so she could play in it.


That's all I have time for now. I'll write more if anyone is interested and try to answer any questions anyone might have.

[GirlySports]

you didnt steal a traffic cops hat?

[bax]

Did anything shock you? Or did your research pretty much prepare you for everything? Is this a trip that you would recommend to others?

[The Yen Man]

Wow, great thread, and fascinating read. It's always interesting to read and hear about experiences people actually have when in North Korea, rather than through the biased lens of media. I don't doubt there's a lot of issues with North Korea, but I always wonder how much the media exaggerates it to make it look even harsher.

[Thor]

Omg awesome, can you post large images though, those are pretty small.