The New American Politics thread

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Yeah, and Gabby giffords was shot in the head point blank by a mentally disturbed anti-establishment political extremist before he killed 6 other people.

Yeah but that's not "terrorism" though, so it's all good and normal.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

Yeah but that's not "terrorism" though, so it's all good and normal.

White privilege.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Yeah, and Gabby giffords was shot in the head point blank by a mentally disturbed anti-establishment political extremist before he killed 6 other people.

And as horrifying as that was, it was one incident. The suggestion here was Trump losing would spark some kind of significant rise in his supporters just going on rampages after the election. The thing you have to remember is these people are, generally speaking, cowards. They don't have it in them to actually go all the way, they just like to talk tough. That's why they need 19 guns after all, because they aren't that tough they just like the appear tough. Besides Palin had more of the religious and gun nut jobs, and in this election those people are generally part of #NeverTrump because they wanted the even more deplorable Ted Cruz instead. In fact a lot of them were apoplectic today Trump was going to "talk to the NRA" about the ban on sales to those on watch lists.

[PsYcNeT]

Naw the US is going to just get exponentially more violent until they reach Dredd-levels of class-separation and authoritarian crazy.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Naw the US is going to just get exponentially more violent until they reach Dredd-levels of class-separation and authoritarian crazy.

And the best example of that in a microcosm would be this thread where instead of urging solidarity, instead sought to manipulate narratives - often in contradiction of existing facts - to suit particular political and ideological motives.

It is absolutely disgusting to me how quickly the culture fractured into warring groups so soon after the shooting. Right and left - completely repulsive.

[Caged Great]

A new poll from Wisconsin, which may be reflective of other similar states in the region.

Clinton 46
Trump 39


Also, if the states that have voted the same way in each of the last 4 elections, the Democrats will have 242 electoral votes. At that rate, they would need only Nevada, Colorado, Iowa, New Mexico, and New Hampshire (all the little toss ups) or just Florida.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

That gave me the chills.

What a rank environment.

Waiting for peter12 to explain how it's all the Liberals' fault.

I'm not a Trump supporter by any means. I think Trumpism is an interesting phenomenon that deserves honest investigation and understanding.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Naw the US is going to just get exponentially more violent until they reach Dredd-levels of class-separation and authoritarian crazy.

Or maybe the victims of White Genocide will finally fight back. More than likely it'll be meme wars on Twitter that decides it.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by peter12

It is absolutely disgusting to me how quickly the culture fractured into warring groups so soon after the shooting. Right and left - completely repulsive.

That is the problem when a group wants 100% of their demands or they won't agree to anything.

Instead of tackling problems based on what both sides they agree on and building from there, the lack of will to do anything that isn't 100% what they want is the corrosive thing.

In order to actually heal this fracture is to get rid of all the zealots like Cruz on both sides. Get rid of safe seats in congress. They need to have people that will make deals, even if they aren't perfect. Sort of how Bill Clinton worked with the republican congress to get some things done, even if they were not liberal positions.

Now, you have a situation where 90% of people agree that people should go through background checks, but that goes against the gun lobby's wishes, so nothing gets done. It's ridiculous. It should be simple. Expand background checks, better access to mental health services, ban people that are potential terrorists from buying weapons. Those are not controversial stances. Nobody could slag the republicans for supporting those things. However, you know nothing will get done.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by peter12

I'm not a Trump supporter by any means. I think Trumpism is an interesting phenomenon that deserves honest investigation and understanding.

If you had been paying attention to American politics since 08, this was the inevitable conclusion. I just would have thought it'd be some hardline religious person like Cruz and not a reality show con man like Trump. But winning the GOP nomination by preying on people's racial fears has been an available path for 2 election cycles now to become the nominee. Trump was simply smart (and shameless) enough to take the path.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

If you had been paying attention to American politics since 08, this was the inevitable conclusion. I just would have thought it'd be some hardline religious person like Cruz and not a reality show con man like Trump. But winning the GOP nomination by preying on people's racial fears has been an available path for 2 election cycles now to become the nominee. Trump was simply smart (and shameless) enough to take the path.

The other side is just as much of a driver. Actually elites on both sides have driven the bottom half of America into an increasing complicated kaleidoscope of identity politics.

I'm also not sure that Trump is all THAT smart. Certainly not as smart as Clinton or the Democratic machine behind her.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

If you had been paying attention to American politics since 08, this was the inevitable conclusion. I just would have thought it'd be some hardline religious person like Cruz and not a reality show con man like Trump. But winning the GOP nomination by preying on people's racial fears has been an available path for 2 election cycles now to become the nominee. Trump was simply smart (and shameless) enough to take the path.

The shamelessness of it is what is so remarkable.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by peter12

The other side is just as much of a driver. Actually elites on both sides have driven the bottom half of America into an increasing complicated kaleidoscope of identity politics.

I'm also not sure that Trump is all THAT smart. Certainly not as smart as Clinton or the Democratic machine behind her.

Without a doubt. If the left didn't try to ignore Islamic terrorism or downplay it, there wouldn't be the conditions for such a candidate to emerge. The Mexican thing is puzzling because net migration has been 0 for a while now, but I guess he figured that would be something they could get behind. Ironically his railing against free trade ignores that yeah, jobs went to Mexico...but that also means Mexicans didn't come to America looking for jobs, which brings down illegal immigration.

I do think Trump is actually one of those people who possesses high intelligence, but he doesn't posses critical thinking skills and more importantly self awareness. Being around yes people all the time certainly contributes to that.

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by peter12

The other side is just as much of a driver. Actually elites on both sides have driven the bottom half of America into an increasing complicated kaleidoscope of identity politics.

I'm also not sure that Trump is all THAT smart. Certainly not as smart as Clinton or the Democratic machine behind her.

Do you really think Obama (leader of the Dems for 8 years) is such a driver? Or that there is a counterpoint on the "left" to institutions like the NRA?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Without a doubt. If the left didn't try to ignore Islamic terrorism or downplay it, there wouldn't be the conditions for such a candidate to emerge. The Mexican thing is puzzling because net migration has been 0 for a while now, but I guess he figured that would be something they could get behind. Ironically his railing against free trade ignores that yeah, jobs went to Mexico...but that also means Mexicans didn't come to America looking for jobs, which brings down illegal immigration.

I do think Trump is actually one of those people who possesses high intelligence, but he doesn't posses critical thinking skills and more importantly self awareness. Being around yes people all the time certainly contributes to that.

Or if the left had not callously discarded class politics for crude identity politics.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

Do you really think Obama (leader of the Dems for 8 years) is such a driver? Or that there is a counterpoint on the "left" to institutions like the NRA?

The Clinton Foundation. The ACLU. Google.

The left have their lobbyists too.

[Fuzz]

I wonder if this will turn into another Democratic blowout. Surly the Republicans can't take another massive loss and not re-examine what they stand for, and how they pick their leader, right?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by peter12

Or if the left had not callously discarded class politics for crude identity politics.

It is weird that an ideology of the far left has fractured the working and middle class. Maybe because the new left can't really talk about economic class without alienating their most influential proponents, who tend to come from the educated and affluent. It seems far easier to make affluent white people feel guilty about being white that it is to make them feel guilty about being affluent.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It is weird that an ideology of the far left has fractured the working and middle class. Maybe because the new left can't really talk about economic class without alienating their most influential proponents, who tend to come from the educated and affluent. It seems far easier to make affluent white people feel guilty about being white that it is to make them feel guilty about being affluent.

It is even weirder that traditional conservatives often have more in common with their old social democrat enemies than they do with the new libertarians - which have increasing presence in the ranks of the elites on both the Right and the Left.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Without a doubt. If the left didn't try to ignore Islamic terrorism or downplay it, there wouldn't be the conditions for such a candidate to emerge. The Mexican thing is puzzling because net migration has been 0 for a while now, but I guess he figured that would be something they could get behind. Ironically his railing against free trade ignores that yeah, jobs went to Mexico...but that also means Mexicans didn't come to America looking for jobs, which brings down illegal immigration.

I do think Trump is actually one of those people who possesses high intelligence, but he doesn't posses critical thinking skills and more importantly self awareness. Being around yes people all the time certainly contributes to that.

They aren't ignoring Islamic terrorism, it's that this is a war for minds as well as territory. If you hammer the religion Islam too hard you give the Islamic youth an excuse to join ISIS. This is where Trump falls right into their trap.