Alberta Politics Thread

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GGG

They did significantly change the conventional side for the better. The royalty review should be held up as a lesson for politicians on how partisanship should work.

They had an idea.
They hired the best people for the job to decide the best past forward
They accepted the recommendations without political interference.

Compare that to say Harper on prison sentences or Stelmech when he just arbitrarily jacked royalties without a thoughtful process. Or the NDPs implementation of the Carbon tax.

You can really see the people who just cheer for a team when they criticise the ndp on the royalty review.

I'm going to disagree with you on that one.

The NDP promised a Royalty Review on political merits and during their campaign repeatedly banged the drum that Albertans weren't getting their 'fair share.'

Whereas anyone who could find their own ass without the benefit of a road map knew this was a huge load of political BS, the NDP needed a committee of experts to guide them all the way to their own pair of sweet cheeks and determine that Albertans were indeed getting their 'fair share.'

They applied lipstick on that pig by saying 'its not the time for a cash grab' and then proceeding to jack property taxes, personal taxes, corporate taxes and impose the carbon tax. Basically grab as much cash as they could land their hands on.

In the shockingly incompetent 8 month meantime Capital drained out of this province and went abroad as if someone pulled the plug out of a bathtub and we're still paying for it.

[peter12]

I want to and will respond, but I am just not on top of my game right now.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by peter12

http://www.calgarysun.com/2016/05/14...lgbtq-students

No. I am not saying I agree with the protest, but hundreds - maybe thousands - of protestors from many backgrounds showed up to protest this bill in Calgary.

A principled, compassionate, and intelligent social conservative platform - combined with solid, prudent fiscal policy could win big in this province.

You're correct that there are a lot of socially conservative people who baulk at some of progressive policies promoted in schools and the media. And they don't all live in rural Alberta, not by a long shot. Many of them are immigrants. The people who move to Canada from pretty much anywhere except Western Europe are typically more socially conservative than native Canadians. They have more traditional ideas about sex and marriage. They're not as tolerant of licentiousness and alternative lifestyles. It doesn't get much coverage in the media, but when there's a protest these days against things like sex education or HPV vaccinations in schools, it's usually in communities and schools with large immigrant populations.

The problem is that the other population that's socially conservative are elderly and rural - voters who are typically also anti-immigrant. And immigrants know this. That's what makes voting on social conservative issues so problematic for them - the prospect of a rural, anti-immigrant, anti-city party taking power are more threatening than the social policies that progressives put in.

Unless someone can square that circle, I just don't see social conservatism as a winner politically.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

You're correct that there are a lot of socially conservative people who baulk at some of progressive policies promoted in schools and the media. And they don't all live in rural Alberta, not by a long shot. Many of them are immigrants. The people who move to Canada from pretty much anywhere except Western Europe are typically more socially conservative than native Canadians. They have more traditional ideas about sex and marriage. They're not as tolerant of licentiousness and alternative lifestyles. It doesn't get much coverage in the media, but when there's a protest these days against things like sex education or HPV vaccinations in schools, it's usually in communities and schools with large immigrant populations.

The problem is that the other population that's socially conservative are elderly and rural - voters who are typically also anti-immigrant. And immigrants know this. That's what makes voting on social conservative issues so problematic for them - the prospect of a rural, anti-immigrant, anti-city party taking power are more threatening than the social policies that progressives put in.

Unless someone can square that circle, I just don't see social conservatism as a winner politically.

Well, as someone in the RIP Boobies thread so eloquently pointed out, things change. But these are values that may change, but at a much slower pace.

[Slava]

Looks like some interesting times coming in the Wildrose party. Here is a piece from Danielle Smith: http://www.newstalk770.com/2016/06/10/129793/

And in that piece it refers to a longer blog post here: http://albertapoliticalinsiders.kobl...ing-roses.html

Sounds like another new leader on the horizon though, which is not good for the party.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by Dion

The PC's and the WRP need to merge or they will split the vote causing the NDP to win again

I am a member of the WRP and a I know the finance critic.

I am losing faith in this group. If they leave LGBT folks alone and focus on tax reform and other populist ideas (ex. Dumping photo radar) they can win a majority. Sadly, they just don't get it.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Slava

Looks like some interesting times coming in the Wildrose party. Here is a piece from Danielle Smith: http://www.newstalk770.com/2016/06/10/129793/

And in that piece it refers to a longer blog post here: http://albertapoliticalinsiders.kobl...ing-roses.html

Sounds like another new leader on the horizon though, which is not good for the party.

That's fascinating stuff. The faster they marginalize themselves the better IMO.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

That's fascinating stuff. The faster they marginalize themselves the better IMO.

The part about the push poll is just astounding really. People are so hell-bent on their agenda that they're willing to spend money and try to take down a chance at government for their own party to advance it. Like I know that those people exist, but its still surprising to read about.

[Tron_fdc]

See that just reinforces what I said about the WRP being a bunch of zealots.

The sooner they disappear the better.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Locke

I'm going to disagree with you on that one.

The NDP promised a Royalty Review on political merits and during their campaign repeatedly banged the drum that Albertans weren't getting their 'fair share.'

Whereas anyone who could find their own ass without the benefit of a road map knew this was a huge load of political BS, the NDP needed a committee of experts to guide them all the way to their own pair of sweet cheeks and determine that Albertans were indeed getting their 'fair share.'

They applied lipstick on that pig by saying 'its not the time for a cash grab' and then proceeding to jack property taxes, personal taxes, corporate taxes and impose the carbon tax. Basically grab as much cash as they could land their hands on.

In the shockingly incompetent 8 month meantime Capital drained out of this province and went abroad as if someone pulled the plug out of a bathtub and we're still paying for it.

They fixed a lot on the conventional side and the capital drained do to oil price.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

While the WRP loses its nut on the right, the nuts on the left are having their convention in Calgary.

Resolutions to end pipelines & fracking, and the usual party stuff. The interesting one to me is calling to secede from the federal NDs. If that gets any air it could have some federal repercussions. They won't like the colonies getting all independent, and I wonder if that makes things like the leap manifesto weaker or stronger nationally.

im also curious if and how strongly they reaffirm minimum wage commitments. Behind closed doors a few are starting to get the damage they are causing, but the rank and file and some of the leadership are still looney lefters who might be looking to push harder, not back away.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Slava

Looks like some interesting times coming in the Wildrose party. Here is a piece from Danielle Smith: http://www.newstalk770.com/2016/06/10/129793/

And in that piece it refers to a longer blog post here: http://albertapoliticalinsiders.kobl...ing-roses.html

Sounds like another new leader on the horizon though, which is not good for the party.

A “poll” went out asking people to identify their support. When they identified as Wildrose they were played a message that went something like this: “Wildrose Leader Danielle Smith and some of her MLAs marched in Pride where men dressed in women’s underwear and danced in front of children. Is this consistent with your values?” The “poll” was targeted and designed to keep Wildrose voters from coming out to vote during the byelections and it worked: we lost all four seats. I thought it was done by one of our opponents. At the AGM I found out it was done by a Wildrose organizer supported by a Wildrose donor. The effort at the AGM to vote down the LGBTQ equality rights policy was apparently part of an effort to teach me a lesson for marching in Pride.

Yeah, these rubes are never going to form a government. It seems like they don't even really want to. They just want a platform to express their displeasure at stuff other people do. Classic grass-roots, populist, howling-in-the-wilderness politics.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

While the WRP loses its nut on the right, the nuts on the left are having their convention in Calgary.

Resolutions to end pipelines & fracking, and the usual party stuff. The interesting one to me is calling to secede from the federal NDs. If that gets any air it could have some federal repercussions. They won't like the colonies getting all independent, and I wonder if that makes things like the leap manifesto weaker or stronger nationally.

im also curious if and how strongly they reaffirm minimum wage commitments. Behind closed doors a few are starting to get the damage they are causing, but the rank and file and some of the leadership are still looney lefters who might be looking to push harder, not back away.

I don''t get why anyone is surprised at stuff like this in their conventions. The bottom line is the NDP in Alberta is and always has been a fringe lunatic party party of whacko's and tea kettle socialists, and they managed to ride a corrupt and tired party and a incompetent opposition party to a surprise election result.

In the end as they keep pushing forward with their lunacy they'll revert back to being a single digit seat after thought party and history will be unkind to them, and even worse for them, they'll be held up in every election campaign coast to coast about what happens when you let the NDP get a hold of your government, they might not wreck your province in the first year or even the first term, but they can't help their arrogance and theoretical sense of social economics. The Alberta NDP are just an example of how quick they can go completely dumb.

[c.t.ner]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Yeah, these rubes are never going to form a government. It seems like they don't even really want to. They just want a platform to express their displeasure at stuff other people do. Classic grass-roots, populist, howling-in-the-wilderness politics.

The problem with the Wildrose, is that the Wildrose was a party built out of protest and a merger of two far right fringe parties. I won't deny that they have a strong grassroots support and they've done a good job of marketing and solidifying their base, but the also are their own worst enemy.

They also have continued to show that once they're on the verge of making a break through and potentially appealing to the mainstream they manage to self destruct. If you look at things starting with the Redford election they managed to drop that election with the Lake of Fire comments. They should have won at least one by-election during the Prentice four by-election (Calgary-West should have been won by Sheila Taylor, yet they managed to abandon her at the last minute), the pushed away most of their most moderate and strongest voices at the AGM in 2014 and after all the good will that Jean built during the fires in May they are now spending the NDP convention weekend try to stop the runaway train of gossip and internal strife that is going to be a distraction all summer.

They now have less than 3 years to figure it all out, but I really doubt they'll be able to.

[GaiJin]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

See that just reinforces what I said about the WRP being a bunch of zealots.

The sooner they disappear the better.

So much for inclusiveness.

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

See that just reinforces what I said about the WRP being a bunch of zealots.

The sooner they disappear the better.

They have nearly served their purpose of refreshing the PC's with new blood and getting the old guard out. The sooner the WR folds the better for Alberta (we can't avoid to wait the 2 election cycles it will truly take the PCs to delete the old guard).

Without the WR, the NDP would still be at most have a minority government (may be even a stretch). I always find it funny that because of the WR formation and vote splitting, a party which believe the polar opposite of them got elected to a majority government.

Does the WR have the mantle of the biggest win in the history AB politics by bringing down a political dynasty that needed change, or the biggest flop in AB politics history by getting the NDP a majority government?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Kavvy

Without the WR, the NDP would still be at most have a minority government (may be even a stretch). I always find it funny that because of the WR formation and vote splitting, a party which believe the polar opposite of them got elected to a majority government.

The same thing has happened federally on the left for decades. Should the NDP and Liberals merge?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The same thing has happened federally on the left for decades. Should the NDP and Liberals merge?

That would mean you would have to believe the liberals are a left of centre party. They are right now but the Cretian /Martin liberals were fiscal conservatives.

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The same thing has happened federally on the left for decades. Should the NDP and Liberals merge?

I truly don't understand, the Liberals have a majority without the NDP, why merge?

[rubecube]

As much as I don't agree with the WRP on just about anything, a system where three parties have a legitimate chance of ruling is better than one with just two. Look at BC right now, where the choice is between giving a corrupt, egotistical narcissist like Christy Clark another term, or turning the keys over to the NDP.