Alberta Politics Thread

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Fire

The protest vote should have went to the Wildrose. They have some idiots but every party does and the damage to the economy would be much less.

Are you forgetting half the party turn coated before the election call? That looked almost as bad on them as it did the PC's. There was no appetite for a party that divided and Brian Jean couldn't string more than 3 words together. "No new taxes". You've got to be a bit more dynamic than that. So it didn't leave many alternatives for where votes went.

[GGG]

The wildrose would be in power if they had just passed a resolution at their convention pretending that they weren't homophobes. They didn't, Smith left, and the NDP came to power.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Practically speaking, though, he's probably right. I doubt the WRP would have been remotely interventionist. The problem is that if I'm wrong, and they'd decided to flex majority muscle on social matters, they'd have been much worse.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Those that voted NDP, are you happy yet?

Honestly, if the PCs get their #### together they can win back a majority in 2019. The WRP is starting to lose their minds.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Those that voted NDP, are you happy yet?

Honestly, if the PCs get their #### together they can win back a majority in 2019. The WRP is starting to lose their minds.

Given the options on the table at the time yes. WRP had no platform, the PVs needed to go.

Am I happy? I don't think the NDP policy has materially changed our economic situation in the province given the price of oil. Hiwever I'm unimpressed with their carbon tax, very impressed with royalty review, and unimpressed with debt numbers.

I think it was worth 8 billion or so in additional debt to change government. Not happy though. $60 oil woukd make me happy

[Dion]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Those that voted NDP, are you happy yet?

Honestly, if the PCs get their #### together they can win back a majority in 2019. The WRP is starting to lose their minds.

The PC's and the WRP need to merge or they will split the vote causing the NDP to win again

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Are you forgetting half the party turn coated before the election call? That looked almost as bad on them as it did the PC's. There was no appetite for a party that divided and Brian Jean couldn't string more than 3 words together. "No new taxes". You've got to be a bit more dynamic than that. So it didn't leave many alternatives for where votes went.

You know what though...Danielle Smith was actually right. IIRC when she pulled that move her point was that Alberta was facing a huge economic problem and rather than fight and argue we needed to band together and try to work towards solutions. I'm sure that I was among those who were happy to call her out as power hungry and things like that. I still entirely disagree with her floor crossing and related antics, but she did get the economic issue right.

[Fuzz]

Fair enough, but the optics were horrible for both parties.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Slava

You know what though...Danielle Smith was actually right. IIRC when she pulled that move her point was that Alberta was facing a huge economic problem and rather than fight and argue we needed to band together and try to work towards solutions. I'm sure that I was among those who were happy to call her out as power hungry and things like that. I still entirely disagree with her floor crossing and related antics, but she did get the economic issue right.

If Smith and Anderson didn't sell their souls for cabinet seats under Prentice, Danielle would be premier today, with a large enough base of support to keep the fringes of the party on the fringe. She wasn't right, and she played a major role in creating the scenario that put the NDP in power.

[Looch City]

What's worse, a corrupt government or an incompetent government?

Atleast the NDP came in with good intentions, the PCs at the time needed a giant wake up call.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Dion

The PC's and the WRP need to merge or they will split the vote causing the NDP to win again

They aren't going to win again. Even the most optimistic NDP'r knows that deep down inside.

The only way they were going to win again was if they pulled off some sort of miracle. A combination of bad luck/timing and "doing what the NDP does" put an end to that.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

They aren't going to win again. Even the most optimistic NDP'r knows that deep down inside.

The only way they were going to win again was if they pulled off some sort of miracle. A combination of bad luck/timing and "doing what the NDP does" put an end to that.

I'm not so sure. I tend to think it's guys like me that are the problem in this province.

I can't vote WRP because I think they're a bunch of homophobe bible thumpers. I can't vote PC because I think they're criminals. I can't vote NDP because they're too far left for me. So now I'm an apathetic voter because who's left to vote for??

WRP and PC still split their vote, and the NDP rallies the grassroot support once again and next thing you know it's another tight race.

PC's REALLY have to get their sh*t together here and start appealing to guys like me who are waiting for a charismatic, intelligent leader that isn't going to build personal palaces, and a solidified party behind him (or her) that isn't running around talking christian fundamentals.

You can argue all day long whether there's any truth or fact in my perception of each party, but unfortunately optics tend to play a bigger role in voting habits of our average Joe who doesn't spend more that a few hours a year reading about politics. I'm pretty sure everyone's facebook feeds are a great example of that.

[Senator Clay Davis]

The NDP winning the election wasn't the problem, the NDP getting a majority was the problem. Even if the right stays split and the NDP somehow wins again in 2019, as long as they don't get a majority they basically can't do anything. I also think the PCs will get their #### in order and will have a half decent leader in place by that time, and they'll probably roll back into power. Ideally a minority though because giving them back full power would probably be a mistake.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

What's worse, a corrupt government or an incompetent government?

Atleast the NDP came in with good intentions, the PCs at the time needed a giant wake up call.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Its starting to look like Notley in the NDP are just as cynical as any other party, and there are signs of pretty heavy corruption in that party at the top, especially with their fund raising activities.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

If Smith and Anderson didn't sell their souls for cabinet seats under Prentice, Danielle would be premier today, with a large enough base of support to keep the fringes of the party on the fringe. She wasn't right, and she played a major role in creating the scenario that put the NDP in power.

I disagree. The WR vote against inclusivity was a shot against the bow of the party leadership, and Smith knew it. The rural, socially conservative wing of the party flexed its muscles and showed the Calgary corporate wing who was really in charge. Smith recognized she no longer had control of the party, and that a socially conservative party could not win an election in Alberta in 2015, and she walked.

The WR is a coalition of grassroots rural conservatives and corporate Calgary. The WR was nothing more than a protest party until Calgary oil money flooded into the party as a way to threaten Stelmach. Those two groups have much less in common than WR supporters like to admit. The Conservatives were able to keep a similar coalition together for so long by buying off the rural wing with great gobs of money (at the expense of Alberta's cities, it must be noted). The demographics of the province have changed, and that's no longer a viable political strategy (or fiscally responsible). My guess is it will take another election loss or two for the rural wing to recognize that they will have to be a junior partner in any coalition going forward. Even then, I think we'll see a splinter party, or maybe even a rump WR (if the Conservatives make a comeback) representing rural, socially-conservative voters.

[stampsx2]

and then we'll have to listen to ndp supporters say it wasn't their fault. The ndp did a really good job with oil being as low as it was.

I'm glad oil is low during their time in power. I can't imagine what ridiculous spending and contracts they would start if they actually had the funds.

[Resolute 14]

That was my point, Cliff. If Smith had fought through that vote rather than just folding her tent in a huff, she would have attracted those disaffected PC voters forced to choose between her and the NDP. That would have moved the party closer to the centre, and more toward the social agenda she wanted. But she got impatient, wanted the power, and sold out conservatives of all stripes in the process.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

That was my point, Cliff. If Smith had fought through that vote rather than just folding her tent in a huff, she would have attracted those disaffected PC voters forced to choose between her and the NDP. That would have moved the party closer to the centre, and more toward the social agenda she wanted. But she got impatient, wanted the power, and sold out conservatives of all stripes in the process.

But at what point do you look at which is easier. Move the PC's back to the right or try to attract rational people to a party that is still fighting battles settled 10 years ago.

[Flash Walken]

WildRose policies/politics is so undesirable to the Alberta electorate that they'll still have to join with another party in order to attain any kind of power.

Considering how much of the party is bankrolled by corporate dollars rather than individual fundraising, it makes their support look even worse.

you give me millions of dollars in campaign infrastructure and I will get you 20% of the vote.

[polak]

Wasn't the Wild Rose' solution to the revenue problem in this province just a bunch of one time spending cuts?