I'm sorry but there's no way he's worth a Holographic Charizard.
Holographic Charizard is nothing. If he asks for a shadowless, first edition holographic Charizard then we've clearly got a bit of a diva on our hands.
I just want to point out, there is nothing stylistically similar about Monahan and Toews.
I disagree. Both strong 2-way centres at a very early age who aren't flashy but do a lot of the little things right. Toews was and is stronger and grittier but I see a lot of similarities.
The comparisons have been made widely across the hockey world with many in the media comparing Monahan and Gaudreau to Toews and Kane when they were younger.
As I pointed out in the other thread, I think it's pretty obvious that isn't to suggest they're comparable talents at present, but again, that seems like common sense.
Quote:
“(Toews) is a player I’ve looked up to the last couple of years,” Monahan said.
“It’s a style of play that I try to play like.
“I try to play a hard two-way game and compete every shift.
“He plays hard in both ends of the ice, and that’s something I want to do.”
I disagree. Both strong 2-way centres at a very early age who aren't flashy but do a lot of the little things right.
Monahan is NOT a strong two way center though. That's just a hope people have for him. He's not even yet at a Stamkos level of two-way play, and no one confuses Steven Stamkos for a strong two-way center.
Toews IS flashy. I'm not sure where the idea came from that he isn't.
What's left in that description describes pretty much every other NHL center in history.
Quote:
Toews was and is stronger and grittier but I see a lot of similarities.
And quicker and way more tenacious and with more of a outside-in cycle game to default on rather than hanging around in the slot and more capable of creating offense through rushing the puck with speed through the middle...
wait.... that's nothing like Sean Monahan.
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Monahan is NOT a strong two way center though. That's just a hope people have for him. He's not even yet at a Stamkos level of two-way play, and no one confuses Steven Stamkos for a strong two-way center.
Neither was Toews right out of the gate, at least compared to where he is now (probably one of the best in the game at it). And in his third year I thought Sean made some serious strides in his two way play.
It's fine if you don't see it, but your tone almost sounds flabbergasted at a notion and compairison that has been made many times around the hockey world by some very respected people in the game.
Quote:
"Everyone talks about the centermen in this conference and they don’t talk about Sean Monahan. They should," Darryl Sutter told reporters.
Sutter even went as far to suggest that the 20-year-old Monahan rivals some of the best all-around centers in the league.
"He's probably in that (Jonathan) Toews group in terms of that all-around guy who can play minutes and play situations and play against top guys," Sutter said.
Is Monahan out of the gate? Last season was his third year - did he finish 4th in Selke voting? Toews did. Okay, even assuming he's a year or two behind developmentally, do you see a top 5 selke finish on Monahan's resume within the next two years? Monahan isn't even our top defensive center yet.
Quote:
your tone almost sounds flabbergasted at a notion
I am flabbergasted. Comparing Sean Monahan and Jonathan Toews stylistically is akin to comparing Johnny Gaudreau and Brendan Gallagher stylistically because they're both wingers under 5'10"". It's just.. flabbergast-worthy.
I don't know how you can watch the two players and conclude they're stylistically similar. You're comparing a speedy, tenacious outside-in cycler with an assortment of dangles to a methodical, slow-footed quick-release sniper and net crasher and concluding they play the same style of game.
Talent has nothing to do with why I'm flabbergasted.
And I'm not sure why you keep posting generic quotes like that. Next you're gonna tell me about how John Gibson is the next great goaltender?
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That some people here actually question whether or not he's a "legit" #1C is mind-bogglingly mind-bottling.
I dont think anyone questions if his production is the production of a young legit 1C. He is our number 1 center. He scores like a number one center. People are projecting his career. Looking forward at playoff matchups, how he plays, what he brings and saying he would be a 1B on a contender.
What the heck is a "legit" number 1 center? Can someone post the criteria? Its such a silly term. Will Las Vegas' team's 1st line center be a legit 1st line center because he plays there or puts up 30/30? I think theres a difference between talking about a legit 1st line center which Monahan definitely is...
AND an ELITE 1st line center. Which I dont see Monahan as personally. I think on a contending cup team, he has to be the 1B - based on what I've seen from him. Thats what I think.
He is our number one center right now. Do I think the flames can go against some of the best teams in the playoffs and win with monahan as their 1A? I dont think so, based on his style and his lack of dynamic skating or aggression. But he's a baby and he can improve. I didnt like what I saw from him vs Kesler in the playoffs, I dont think that happens to a player like Bennett and I think thats the difference. Monahan is great and is one of the best young finishing centers in the NHL. His 2 way game isnt what people think, he isnt a dynamic skater, he doesnt always generate offense or create opportunities but is great at finishing plays Bennett is great and can impose himself on a game with skating, creativity, physicality, hands etc.. 1A, 1B. I think he would be one of the best 1B centers in the NHL though.
I think the terminology is what is making people disagree.
Legit 1st line center = heck yes.
Elite 1st line center = debateable. maybe he can become one, maybe he and bennet can both be 1A elite 1st line centers.
I think to say Monahan is an elite 1st line center - we'd have to have a chat about what an elite first line center is. Maybe we're only disagreeing because of our definition of the term. I think there are maybe about 10 elite 1st line centers in the NHL and over half of them have already won a cup or 2 and play a far more imposing and dangerous game than sean, with all due respect.
Last edited by Crumpy-Gunt; 06-08-2016 at 09:40 PM.
Is Monahan out of the gate? Last season was his third year - did he finish 4th in Selke voting? Toews did. Okay, even assuming he's a year or two behind developmentally, do you see a top 5 selke finish on Monahan's resume within the next two years? Monahan isn't even our top defensive center yet.
I am flabbergasted. Comparing Sean Monahan and Jonathan Toews stylistically is akin to comparing Johnny Gaudreau and Brendan Gallagher stylistically because they're both wingers under 6'0". It's just.. flabbergast-worthy.
I don't know how you can watch the two players and conclude they're stylistically similar. You're comparing a speedy, tenacious outside-in cycler with an assortment of dangles to a methodical, slow-footed quick-release sniper and net crasher and concluding they play the same style of game.
Talent has nothing to do with why I'm flabbergasted.
And I'm not sure why you keep posting generic quotes like that. Next you're gonna tell me about how John Gibson is the next great goaltender?
Why did I post a quote by Darryl Sutter likening Sean Monahan's game to Toews? Because that's what we're talking about. It's the same reason I posted a quote from Monahan saying he models his game after Toews. Seems really odd you'd question how those things are relevant when they're exactly what we're talking about.
Sutter noted after a year into Monahan's career he's a responsible two-way centre who's versatile and capable of playing big minutes against other top centres... like Jonahthan Toews does.
Is Towes faster, grittier and a more skilled? Of course. He's currently one of the best centres in the world. They're not the same player... but there are similarities.
I said above and I'll say again, I thought Monahan made serious strides in his two-way game this year and I expect him to continue with that. Do I think he'll ever be one of the top two way centres in the league? I have no idea, but at 22 he's off to a great start.
Of course they have their differences, but there are similarities noted by a lot of people and for good reason.
I dont think anyone questions if his production is the production of a young legit 1C. He is our number 1 center. He scores like a number one center. People are projecting his career. Looking forward at playoff matchups, how he plays, what he brings and saying he would be a 1B on a contender.
What the heck is a "legit" number 1 center? Can someone post the criteria? Its such a silly term. Will Las Vegas' team's 1st line center be a legit 1st line center because he plays there or puts up 30/30? I think theres a difference between talking about a legit 1st line center which Monahan definitely is...
AND an ELITE 1st line center. Which I dont see Monahan as personally. I think on a contending cup team, he has to be the 1B - based on what I've seen from him. Thats what I think.
He is our number one center right now. Do I think the flames can go against some of the best teams in the playoffs and win with monahan as their 1A? I dont think so, based on his style and his lack of dynamic skating or aggression. I think he would be one of the best 1B centers in the NHL though.
I think the terminology is what is making people disagree.
Legit 1st line center = heck yes.
Elite 1st line center = debateable.
And teams do need a 1B. The Sharks need Couture. The Bruins need Krejci. The Kings do need Carter. The Lightning do sort of need Stamkos I think? There's nothing shameful about recognizing that as his likely role on a contender. 1Bs are damn important players. Not every player drafted top 10 is Bergeron or Toews or Kopitar. That's what makes those guys elite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoJetsGo
Why did I post a quote by Darryl Sutter likening Sean Monahan's game to Toews? Because that's what we're talking about. It's the same reason I posted a quote from Monahan saying he models his game after Toews. Seems really odd you'd question how those things are relevant when they're exactly what we're talking about.
Sutter noted after a year into Monahan's career he's a responsible two-way centre who's versatile and capable of playing big minutes against other top centres... like Jonahthan Toews does.
Is Towes faster, grittier and a more skilled? Of course. He's currently one of the best centres in the world. They're not the same player... but there are similarities.
Nothing about what Sutter said was a stylistic comparision. It was a compliment he paid to Monahan ripe with words like "probably", "Toews group" and "can play minutes".
What's to say he wouldn't say the same thing about Nick Bonino right now? The amount of circle jerking over Sutter's comments astounds me. There's nothing wrong what Sutter said, until you start using it as supporting evidence in ranking Monahan or pulling unsaid things about Monahan's style out of them.
Go watch some tape of Jonathan Toews and come back to me with how Monahan plays a similar style.
At best you can make a very loose comparision such as:
Sean Monahan is a 30/30 center.
Jonathan Toews is a 30/30 center.
I have no problem with that degree of comparision.
Just as:
Corey Perry is a 30/30 winger.
Nikita Kucherov is a 30/30 winger.
I have no problem with that pointing to that degree of similarity.
But I will be similarily flabbergasted at anyone telling me Perry and Kucherov are stylistically similar.
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Last edited by GranteedEV; 06-08-2016 at 09:56 PM.
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Monahan is a sniper and big body that can ply big minutes at centre. He is the real deal, when you hear Monahan talk you can tell he is very mature and responsible. He is wearing a letter at 21. Let's get an 8 year deal at $6.75M for both he and Gaudreau and call it a day
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Nothing about what Sutter said was a stylistic comparision. It was a compliment he paid to Monahan ripe with words like "probably", "Toews group" and "can play minutes".
I disagree. I think it's pretty clear he was comparing their two-way play and versatility which results in them able to play in all situations against other team's top players, which I view as similarities in their styles.
I also think their demeanor and versatility play into those stylistic similarities as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GranteedEV
The amount of circle jerking over Sutter's comments astounds me. There's nothing wrong what Sutter said, until you start using it as supporting evidence in ranking Monahan or pulling unsaid things about Monahan's style out of them.
- - -
But I will be similarily flabbergasted at anyone telling me Perry and Kucherov are stylistically similar.
Where is there a "circle jerk" over Sutter's comments? One of the best coaches in the game went out of his way to compliment and compare a young Calgary Flames to one of the best centres in the NHL.
You can try and down-play that any way you want. It's one of many comments / comparisons that have been made in the last three years.
I've read it in many articles and seen it on many broadcasts and if you don't agree and find it that upsetting I hope it continues over the next few years because it's nothing but a positive thing for both Monahan and the Flames moving forward.
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Monahan is a sniper and big body that can ply big minutes at centre. He is the real deal, when you hear Monahan talk you can tell he is very mature and responsible. He is wearing a letter at 21.
Well, the "Tardy Boys" incident notwithstanding.
I'm in the camp that says Sean Monahan gets better with maturity. His game has steadily improved. He's a keeper. We haven't seen the best of Sean Monahan yet.
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I disagree. I think it's pretty clear he was comparing their two-way play and versatility which results in them able to play in all situations against other team's top players, which I view as similarities in their styles.
I also think their demeanor and versatility play into those stylistic similarities as well.
Where is there a "circle jerk" over Sutter's comments? One of the best coaches in the game went out of his way to compliment and compare a young Calgary Flames to one of the best centres in the NHL.
You can try and down-play that any way you want. It's one of many comments / comparisons that have been made in the last three years.
I've read it in many articles and seen it on many broadcasts and if you don't agree and find it that upsetting I hope it continues over the next few years because it's nothing but a positive thing for both Monahan and the Flames moving forward.
Sigh. You can parrot irresponsible, obviously loose comparisons ad infinitum, but that does not make the claim true.
I don't believe in youtube highlights as a form of player evaluation, but you can probably literally just youtube "Jonathan Toews highlights", click any random video to see a player who plays nothing like Sean Monahan unless your only criteria is, "when the puck leaves his stick it passes the goalie on its route to the back of the net".
How one can continue to insist that Monahan and Toews are stylsitically similar is baffling. It seems the fancy notion of being "Chicago West" (which has its merits in Gaudreau and Brodie / Kane and Keith) has blinded people to actual on-ice play. We don't have a Toews, we don't have a Hossa. We don't need to keep pidgeonholing everybody who plays the same position as being "our that".
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Sigh. You can parrot irresponsible, obviously loose comparisons ad infinitum, but that does not make the claim true.
I don't believe in youtube highlights as a form of player evaluation, but you can probably literally just youtube "Jonathan Toews highlights", click any random video to see a player who plays nothing like Sean Monahan unless your only criteria is, "when the puck leaves his stick it passes the goalie on its route to the back of the net".
How one can continue to insist that Monahan and Toews are stylsitically similar is baffling. It seems the fancy notion of being "Chicago West" (which has its merits in Gaudreau and Brodie / Kane and Keith) has blinded people to actual on-ice play. We don't have a Toews, we don't have a Hossa. We don't need to keep pidgeonholing everybody who plays the same position as being "our that".
And you can continue to huff and puff about how flabbergasting and offensive you find it. That doesn't make something that's subjective and opinion based untrue.
I'm going to agree to disagree. I see many similarities, and I'm not the only one.
Sigh. You can parrot irresponsible, obviously loose comparisons ad infinitum, but that does not make the claim true.
I don't believe in youtube highlights as a form of player evaluation, but you can probably literally just youtube "Jonathan Toews highlights", click any random video to see a player who plays nothing like Sean Monahan unless your only criteria is, "when the puck leaves his stick it passes the goalie on its route to the back of the net".
How one can continue to insist that Monahan and Toews are stylsitically similar is baffling. It seems the fancy notion of being "Chicago West" (which has its merits in Gaudreau and Brodie / Kane and Keith) has blinded people to actual on-ice play. We don't have a Toews, we don't have a Hossa. We don't need to keep pidgeonholing everybody who plays the same position as being "our that".
Toews vs. Monahan will never be settled here, but are you sure we don't have a Hossa?
Marian Hossa:
6'1"
210 lbs.
RW
Czechoslovakian
Daniel Pribyl
6'3"
190 lbs.
RW
Czechoslovakian
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AltaGuy has a magnetic personality and exudes positive energy, which is infectious to those around him. He has an unparalleled ability to communicate with people, whether he is speaking to a room of three or an arena of 30,000.
And you can continue to huff and puff about how flabbergasting and offensive you find it. That doesn't make something that's subjective and opinion based untrue.
I'm going to agree to disagree. I see many similarities, and I'm not the only one.
You see similarities that are shallow. And use shallow statements to support that.
Spoiler!
"Ryan Kesler's probably in that (Jonathan) Toews group in terms of that all-around guy who can play minutes and play situations and play against top guys," Sutter said.
"Claude Giroux's probably in that (Jonathan) Toews group in terms of that all-around guy who can play minutes and play situations and play against top guys," Sutter said.
"Tyler Johnson's probably in that (Jonathan) Toews group in terms of that all-around guy who can play minutes and play situations and play against top guys," Sutter said.
"Logan Couture's probably in that (Jonathan) Toews group in terms of that all-around guy who can play minutes and play situations and play against top guys," Sutter said.
"Mikael Backlund's probably in that (Jonathan) Toews group in terms of that all-around guy who can play minutes and play situations and play against top guys," Sutter said.
"Sean Couturier's probably in that (Jonathan) Toews group in terms of that all-around guy who can play minutes and play situations and play against top guys," Sutter said.
"Ryan Nugent Hopkins' probably in that (Jonathan) Toews group in terms of that all-around guy who can play minutes and play situations and play against top guys," Sutter said.
"Nazem Kadri's probably in that (Jonathan) Toews group in terms of that all-around guy who can play minutes and play situations and play against top guys," Sutter said.
"Bryan Little's probably in that (Jonathan) Toews group in terms of that all-around guy who can play minutes and play situations and play against top guys," Sutter said.
"Nick Bonino's probably in that (Jonathan) Toews group in terms of that all-around guy who can play minutes and play situations and play against top guys," Sutter said.
"Jonathan Toews's probably in that Jonathan Toews group in terms of that all-around guy who can play minutes and play situations and play against top guys," Sutter said?
"Riley Sheahan's probably in that (Jonathan) Toews group in terms of that all-around guy who can play minutes and play situations and play against top guys," Sutter said.
"Jori Lehtera's probably in that (Jonathan) Toews group in terms of that all-around guy who can play minutes and play situations and play against top guys," Sutter said.
"Evgeni Kutznetov's probably in that (Jonathan) Toews group in terms of that all-around guy who can play minutes and play situations and play against top guys," Sutter said.
"Connor McDavid's probably in that (Jonathan) Toews group in terms of that all-around guy who can play minutes and play situations and play against top guys," Sutter said.
But to each his own I guess.
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