The Final Hip tour and reminiscing about Gord Downie

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by jayswin

If imagine he was just trying to get people going in a thread dedicated to Canada's biggest band's lead singer getting terminal cancer.

I'm actually surprised it tool this long, figured someone would want to play that part a lot sooner.

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

No, i have just never understood why anyone would buy tickets off a scalper in the first place, I also never understand the hate they engender why everyone gets pissed at them for existing.
I find the concept of a real estate agent far more predatory, no one has to buy concert tickets, it's a luxury item, housing is a basic.

I was referring to your comments on the Hip themselves not the scalping stuff.

Also to your other comment, literally their most recent tour was an arena tour across Canada.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I was referring to your comments on the Hip themselves not the scalping stuff.

Also to your other comment, literally their most recent tour was an arena tour across Canada.

Fair enough, the last time I saw them was at the commodore I think.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I've seen the Hip a couple of times, they're a decent bar band and if it wasn't for Downies illness you nor I nor anyone else would drop more than fourty or fifty to see them and they sure as hell wouldn't be playing Rogers Arena.

Scalpers are no different from any other retailer, they buy a product, jack the price as high as the market will bear then sell it on, they take a risk on it selling and unlike most retailers it's a time limited risk, they take a bath on some concerts, make money on others.

You make it sound like scalpers are saints and that they're doing everybody a huge favour by investing their own money into getting these tickets, as if people aren't capable of logging into Ticketmaster themselves.

They're just scummy people, doing a scummy thing.

So tell me this then, what would be the negative effects if scalpers weren't involved?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Wormius

You make it sound like scalpers are saints and that they're doing everybody a huge favour by investing their own money into getting these tickets, as if people aren't capable of logging into Ticketmaster themselves.

They're just scummy people, doing a scummy thing.

So tell me this then, what would be the negative effects if scalpers weren't involved?

Ticketmaster is the biggest scalper of all for gods sake!!

I don't think scalpers are either saints or scum, they are just a form of retailer that, unlike most, absolutely no one has to do any business with.
As to negative effects, as scalpers perform a loose form of insurance for bands the negative would be that bands would have to play smaller venues where they would be guaranteed to sell out rather than being able to take a chance on a bigger venue. It's the unintentional effect of the futures market.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Ticketmaster is the biggest scalper of all for gods sake!!

For sure. They are sleazy. But at the very least they have been hired by the performer to provide a service — to sell tickets at the price the performer has set to people who want to go to the show. A scalper does nothing beyond weaselling their way into the equation and profiting on the labor/talent of people they have no relationship with.

They are literally making money off of other people's talent and doing nothing. It's no different than selling pirated cds. Hell, pirating cds is probably more honest, because at least you have to "make something" and they can't pretend they are providing a service.

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I don't think scalpers are either saints or scum, they are just a form of retailer that, unlike most, absolutely no one has to do any business with.
As to negative effects, as scalpers perform a loose form of insurance for bands the negative would be that bands would have to play smaller venues where they would be guaranteed to sell out rather than being able to take a chance on a bigger venue. It's the unintentional effect of the futures market.

Bands and promoters don't select larger venues with the hopes that scalpers will be left holding the bag if they don't sell out.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

For sure. They are sleazy. But at the very least they have been hired by the performer to provide a service — to sell tickets at the price the performer has set to people who want to go to the show. A scalper does nothing beyond weaselling their way into the equation and profiting on the labor/talent of people they have no relationship with.

They are literally making money off of other people's talent and doing nothing. It's no different than selling pirated cds. Hell, pirating cds is probably more honest, because at least you have to "make something" and they can't pretend they are providing a service.



Bands and promoters don't select larger venues with the hopes that scalpers will be left holding the bag if they don't sell out.

My point is the band/promoter know upfront 1/3 to 1/2 of the show is sold upfront, therefore their costs are covered, it's effectively the same as crop insurance for a farmer.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Wormius

You make it sound like scalpers are saints and that they're doing everybody a huge favour by investing their own money into getting these tickets, as if people aren't capable of logging into Ticketmaster themselves.

They're just scummy people, doing a scummy thing.

So tell me this then, what would be the negative effects if scalpers weren't involved?

As an aside do you happen to have any stocks or shares, mutual funds or a private pension? if you do you are scalping company futures, it is no different from ticket scalping at all.

[Regular_John]

When I was younger and went to more concerts I was fully on board with the "scalpers are scum" bandwagon. But as I got older and started choosing sports over concerts I've changed my tune a bit and realized it's a two way street.

On the low demand events, say a mid week game in just about any league, you can often find tickets for below face value. Traveling to another city and thinking about hitting up a game in a new stadium? Stub hub is awesome and convenient.

But the flip side is when demand is up, you're gonna pay, and hard.

But having said all that, of the 5 events I've purchased through stubhub I paid a total of about $120 over face value. Which spread across the 16 tickets purchased for these events evens out to about $7.50 premium over face value.

For the convince of waiting well passed the "on sale" time, and not committing to a full slate of season tickets, is a pretty decent value.

At the end of the day it all comes down to supply & demand, and for time sensitive events there is a large disconnect between the two. The $65 ticket is far removed from the value in the market place, be it because demand out strips supply (see The Tragically Hip farewell tour), or supply outstrips demand (see The Blue Jackets on a Tuesday night).

[Frequitude]

Yup. You can't be mad at the scalpers really. Be mad at your fellow peers on the demand curve who force the market clearing price to be well above what bands want to be perceived as charging.

Let's say you eliminate scalpers and ticket reselling. Then it just becomes a who can click the fastest race (lame). The only "fair" way to sell tickets below fair market value with no resales is with a lottery. I'll take the scalpers if that's the case because it means I have a much higher likelihood of getting a ticket, albeit at a higher cost.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

The only "fair" way to sell tickets below fair market value with no resales is with a lottery. I'll take the scalpers if that's the case because it means I have a much higher likelihood of getting a ticket, albeit at a higher cost.

The only way a lottery would work is a requirement to have a credit card on file, and if the same person enters twice that invalidates all of their entries.

What this concert is showing is that there has been a tipping point from scalpers "providing a service" to now essentially holding fans for ransom. Myself not being a Hip fan, it would appear that more scalpers than fans bought the tickets. So now the only way a fan can get tickets is to pay a higher price. That is not "providing a service"- as the fan already did the work to try and get tickets.

In this case there will be no "next time they go on tour." So unlike the Superbowl or even the Flames being in the Stanley Cup, the chance to see this again will never happen. Good on Downie for doing this final tour for his fans. If I was told I had a short time to live- I wouldn't be going back into work. I'd be spending time with my family.

It would have been nice if they could have done something similar to airline tickets; where you have to have your name on the ticket and show ID. Especially in places like Calgary where they are doing 2 shows; you could have made one of the shows with those types of restrictions.

[Cyclops]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I've seen the Hip a couple of times, they're a decent bar band and if it wasn't for Downies illness you nor I nor anyone else would drop more than fourty or fifty to see them and they sure as hell wouldn't be playing Rogers Arena.

Scalpers are no different from any other retailer, they buy a product, jack the price as high as the market will bear then sell it on, they take a risk on it selling and unlike most retailers it's a time limited risk, they take a bath on some concerts, make money on others.

So tell me about the time you saw the Hip in a bar. The Hold Steady are a great bar band, the Hip are a great band. They have played numerous shows to thousands of people, so please tell me how you have come to.the conclusion that they areally a bar band and that's it.

We already have a concert promoter they act as the retailer and they set the price on tickets. So why do scalpers need to come in and try to make money as well? None of that money goes to the artist, the promoter pats them. They also pay for advertising, venue, security.......and if the show is canceled then it's on them to pay those fees regardless, they also refund tickets in those events.

Scalpers can sell phony or multiple tickets, no money goes to any of the above. They are useless. Your logic is flawed.

[Cyclops]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Fair enough, the last time I saw them was at the commodore I think.

I saw the Foo Fighters at the Commodore as well.

What a bar band!

[Igottago]

"The hip are just a bar band" -- either a well placed troll comment, or just completely ignorant of the facts.

As has been mentioned, the Hip have played arenas for decades and large outdoor festivals for just as long. And despite never really becoming a household name in the US, they still played highly commercial events such as Saturday Night Live and Woodstock 99. Not that I think commercial success equates to quality, but the Hip are more akin to the Canadian version of U2 than some band that would play Morgan's on Friday night. Thus the demand for this final tour. And because people love the band, and have done for years.

[Engine09]

The Hip were a bar band once upon a time, then they crafted hit songs and had the talent and creativity to keep doing it over and over again. They were smart enough to find the right management team and had the determination to push their career. Bar bands play covers and don't have the extra drive or talent to transcend to the bigger stages.


Also, scalpers are pure scum. Someone mentioned holding tickets ransom, that's exactly what they do. Provide a service? Hilarious.

[ernie]

For a bar band I've sure seen them in a lot of different cities and countries...

Bar bands don't become synonymous with Canada. Whether one likes their music or not (and most don't as is the case with EVERY musical group in the world) one can not ignore the fact that The Hip, and DOwnie in particular, represent what it is to be Canadian. They are indeed canadian icons and a big portion of that fabric we call canadian culture. It is for good reason: Like it or not, believe it or not, they are very much the Canadian voice of an entire generation of people that live in Canada and around the world.

That said, it sucks that scalpers are ruining this celebration but had I not managed to get a couple of tickets I would be out there "supporting" what they do with a couple of stub hub purchases.

[Yamer]

I think there is a difference between scalpers and re-sellers.

A person who cannot make it to an event and chooses to sell their tickets, marked up slightly to compensate for fees on re-selling sites, are simply re-sellers. I've purchased a few tickets this way.

Scalpers buy the ticket at face value with the sole intent of re-selling that ticket at a profit. To me, that's lame, especially when you do it at an over 1000% mark-up for a band making its final tour because its lead singer has terminal brain cancer. If you can't see how that is scuzzy as all hell then we are going to have a hard time seeing many things through the same perspective.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Yamer

I think there is a difference between scalpers and re-sellers.

A person who cannot make it to an event and chooses to sell their tickets, marked up slightly to compensate for fees on re-selling sites, are simply re-sellers. I've purchased a few tickets this way.

Scalpers buy the ticket at face value with the sole intent of re-selling that ticket at a profit. To me, that's lame, especially when you do it at an over 1000% mark-up for a band making its final tour because its lead singer has terminal brain cancer. If you can't see how that is scuzzy as all hell then we are going to have a hard time seeing many things through the same perspective.

I see it as capitalism, it's no different from me buying a stock in a company, I do sod all to help the company I just bet on its value going up and then cash in.

It's no different from both yours and my pension in truth.

There was a time when I was an ardent socialist, I just find it passing strange that in just one area of capitalist exploitation, an area that no one is forced to take part in for a luxury good that no one needs, we get irate.

The rest of capitalism we're fine with.

I don't hear anyone offering to sell their house for the same price they bought it at ten years ago, because, well you know they haven't done a thing but take advantage of the resale market and that sucks!!

[Wormius]

Sigh. So you would have no problem with somebody's capitalistic endeavors if they went to your town and bought all the items at all of the grocery store as soon they were shipped and then proceeded jacked up the price 10x of what they were before?

Insert some event/item that like and consider what you would think if somebody just bought up all of that commodity so that you could only buy it from them. How does that help you?

I don't see the stock market analogy. You are not screwing anybody over by buying shares in a company. Same with a house. People don't but a house with the intent of selling it for a profit.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Sigh. So you would have no problem with somebody's capitalistic endeavors if they went to your town and bought all the items at all of the grocery store as soon they were shipped and then proceeded jacked up the price 10x of what they were before?

Insert some event/item that like and consider what you would think if somebody just bought up all of that commodity so that you could only buy it from them. How does that help you?

I don't see the stock market analogy. You are not screwing anybody over by buying shares in a company. Same with a house. People don't but a house with the intent of selling it for a profit.

No one has bought up all of anything, scalpers, with the absolute collusion of the promoters, buy up 1/3 or so, the third they buy is insurance for the promoter, which is probably why they don't do a thing to stop it.
There are many many more important items I have to buy every day that are effectively controlled by near monopolies real estate gasoline, milk.
At least concert tickets arnt a necessity.

Scalpers buy a share in a concert effectively, it's utterly the same as buying a stock in a company, neither of them do a damn thing to improve the product, they both just speculate on the potential increase in value, you and I have to pay more for our purchases so that the shareholders can get their dividend, it's completely the same as a scalper. It is all, as Marx put it, fictitious capital.

[Circa89]

what ever happened to Broncos Jacket Dude?


That could be the subject for great Hip Song.

Minus twenty outside the saddledome,
Broncos jacket guy stands all alone....