new bin laden video

[transplant99]

The way I figure it, the first person to start throwing names and values around loses.

Let's remember that the next time you decide to label someone as a "rascist" for wanting to remember the people who dies on 9/11.....on 9/11.

Wow.

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by transplant99@Oct 31 2004, 04:00 PM

Let's remember that the next time you decide to label someone as a "rascist" for wanting to remember the people who dies on 9/11.....on 9/11.

Wow.

You're slandering, quote that please.

[Faid1]

I think the whole video is a ploy to look sympathetic. His points certainly seem reasonable to me, except for the "Whole mass murder" thing. It's really quite genius.

It's a shame those arrogant halfwits will still vote in Bush, though.

[transplant99]

Originally posted by Agamemnon+Oct 31 2004, 12:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Agamemnon @ Oct 31 2004, 12:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
You're slandering, quote that please. [/b]

No problem at all skippy.

<!--QuoteBegin-Agamemnon

I'm offended that we would pick one group out of the many to honour because they were 'our' casualties. I find the notion racist, implying that 'our' 3,000+ dead are worth remembering more than any other dead of any other state.[/quote]

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/index.php?sho...&hl=remembering

[Agamemnon]

I guess the reason this thread is 'hijacked' is simply because I don't identify w/ the victims of 9/11 any more than I do with Iraqi's, Israelis, Arabs, or Australians who are being killed every day. It all sucks. I'm offended that we would pick one group out of the many to honour because they were 'our' casualties. I find the notion racist, implying that 'our' 3,000+ dead are worth remembering more than any other dead of any other state.

It was a tragedy. When are we going to realize that the tragedy had real causes. We're attacking the symptoms (terrorism) instead of the disease (worldwide economic injustice and imbalance).

It takes two to hijack a thread. You've been a more than willing partner.

I suppose this is the quote you're referring to Tranny (in a 'conversation' I was having w/ you). It's not exactly like I was throwing the racist card personally against any posters. I was simply bitching about the fact that 9/11 victims got a lot more attention then the many 1000's getting killed everyday. You don't have to agree, or even listen. Like usual.

To imply that I was specifically called you or anyone else racist is false.

I complained about name-calling in this thread. Your example of mine doesn't include any name-calling. Or can't you comprehend reading (as you so often love to say)?

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally posted by Faid1@Oct 31 2004, 04:32 PM
His points certainly seem reasonable to me, except for the "Whole mass murder" thing. It's really quite genius.

The Unibomber had some good points in his manifesto, I agree with him, except for the whole killing thing!

[EddyBeers]

Originally posted by HOZ@Oct 30 2004, 03:57 PM
And our first apologist comes out of the wood work.

I guess those 23 Canucks were in need of kill'n.

They were in need of "kill'n" just as much as the 100,000 Iraqi's that have been slaughtered since the Yanks went over there. That is almost three times as many as Saddam got in his time there. I bet they get up around 200K before they leave.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by HOZ+Oct 30 2004, 08:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (HOZ @ Oct 30 2004, 08:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-RougeUnderoos@Oct 30 2004, 08:02 PM

Ahh yes, the old "lefty apologist" angle.

The guy confesses to a crime, tells us his motivation, and you say "nope, that's not why, he hates our freedoms and if you disagree with that, you think he's great and what he does is good".

I love that one.

They're streaming out of the woodwork now....

Yes, the Nazis and Communists (ok...not all) admitted their crime which to them wasn't a crime. Documented it and their reasons. Would you say they loved our freedoms? Yet somehow this guy gets away without your vitrol..all saved up for Bush.

Bin Hind'n Laden

This is a man who has more money than all of the Peoples Republic of Saskatchewan. He bankrolled the Taleban and their ruler(s). You saw what kind of country he likes. Or was that what you liked? He is part of the Wahabi Sunni Sect. Wahibism does NOT see any other religion but their own strict codes as legit. As a matter of fact they look to eradicate any others by any means. Try Christianity or Shi'ism in Saudi Arabia or Falujeh!

This man is a murderer. His BS excuses should hardly be given a moments notice other than to remind us that there is garbage out there like him. If really alive he will face justice someday. It is time to stop making excuses or apologies for this guy or his ilk. All criminals try to excuse their crimes. Hardly make is ok. Except for the now very pathetic Lefty-apologists like Claeren. [/b][/quote]
Okay okay you got me. I now see the light (it's black and white).

Terrorists hate our freedom, so they'll die to trying to stop us from having it. Anyone who disagrees with this obvious truth is a terrorist. A person that doesn't believe that terrorists hate our freedoms and nothing else is a member of the Taleban.

The weight of ignorance has been lifted off my shoulders and you and I are now on the same team, shining the light of freedom into the darkest corners or the earth that have yet to be bombed do smithereens. Let the bullets of justice and foolishness fly! Hooray!

[badnarik]

Originally posted by EddyBeers+Oct 31 2004, 04:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (EddyBeers @ Oct 31 2004, 04:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-HOZ@Oct 30 2004, 03:57 PM
And our first apologist comes out of the wood work.

I guess those 23 Canucks were in need of kill'n.

They were in need of "kill'n" just as much as the 100,000 Iraqi's that have been slaughtered since the Yanks went over there. That is almost three times as many as Saddam got in his time there. I bet they get up around 200K before they leave. [/b][/quote]
if you are talking about the recent report of 100,000 killed, the report shows that the researchers were 95% certain that there were between 8,000 and 194,000 dead. thats quite a margin of error. not very convincing to me

[Claeren]

Talk about black or white.

In my original post how was i dismissing the lives of those lost on 9/11???

It had nothing to do with that at all. It had to do with an academic approach to his speech. What was he saying and, assuming he meant any of it, what did it say about HIS perspective? How are you going to defeat someone if you don't understand what makes them tick? Thinking otherwise is foolhardy and ######ed!! Not because you should sympathize but because you need it to properly strategize!

If hatred of American imperialism and reckless disregard for life really rallies young men to Bin Laden's cause is it really wise to go out and kill randomly and for questionable reasons people throughout the mid-east? Could you not find a better way to spend that 270 Billion dollars (through to the end of next year only) and 1200 American lives (~ so far)? It is called 'opportunity cost', say it with me now, 'opportunity cost'. Very good! What that suggests is that for every dollar (or resource) you spend on one thing cannot be spent on another. Not only could you have made a bigger impact on the terror world by spending your resources differently but you would at the same time create less opportunity for the Muslim world to rally around BinLaden in the first place, creating less opportunity for him to draw followers to his cause, and a less messy cost 'collaterally' to innocents. Not to mention the loss of political capital expended in this cause…

I assure you that if i was in charge i would be MORE vicious then Bush, not less!! Just because I have flexible viewpoints and am willing to look at the other side of an issue does not make me some liberal flower child. I would secretly be sending the best and most advanced death squads on the planet into remote areas of the earth to execute and destroy every terrorist enclave on earth. I would be spending billions honing satellite and communication interception technology to help track their movements. I would be spending more again on securing and destroying REAL WMD that have proliferated around the world (often with America’s consent). And I would be spending money on actually making a dent in the incidence of scanning of incoming cargo into the USA. All for likely less then the mess in Iraq will end up costing America! I would be not be gallivanting around Iraq with VERY questionable motives and absolutely no direction other then killing Muslims because Americans can't tell the difference between Iraqi's and Afghani’s and Bin Laden's followers and it is an easy sell with great side benefits to certain elite groups.

Lastly, the Taliban, the USA government, and the Bush family each have a long and close relationship. Your blind support for bad planning and questionable back-door policy astounds me, particularly in light of your willingness to condemn anyone who has ever expressed the slightest association with Bin Laden or his ilk.If you TRULY wanted to make the world a better place in honour of those lost their lives on 9/11 you would demand leadership that delivered on its war on terror instead of its promises to special interests disguised as a war on terror…

Claeren.

[HOZ]

Originally posted by RougeUnderoos+Nov 1 2004, 01:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RougeUnderoos @ Nov 1 2004, 01:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

They're streaming out of the woodwork now....

Yes, the Nazis and Communists (ok...not all) admitted their crime which to them wasn't a crime. Documented it and their reasons. Would you say they loved our freedoms? Yet somehow this guy gets away without your vitrol..all saved up for Bush.

Bin Hind'n Laden

This is a man who has more money than all of the Peoples Republic of Saskatchewan. He bankrolled the Taleban and their ruler(s). You saw what kind of country he likes. Or was that what you liked? He is part of the Wahabi Sunni Sect. Wahibism does NOT see any other religion but their own strict codes as legit. As a matter of fact they look to eradicate any others by any means. Try Christianity or Shi'ism in Saudi Arabia or Falujeh!

This man is a murderer. His BS excuses should hardly be given a moments notice other than to remind us that there is garbage out there like him. If really alive he will face justice someday. It is time to stop making excuses or apologies for this guy or his ilk. All criminals try to excuse their crimes. Hardly make is ok. Except for the now very pathetic Lefty-apologists like Claeren.

[/b][/quote]

Terrorists hate our freedom, so they'll die to trying to stop us from having it. Anyone who disagrees with this obvious truth is a terrorist. A person that doesn't believe that terrorists hate our freedoms and nothing else is a member of the Taleban.

Where did I say this, there Underwear?

Do you, like Clearen, think he made some 'good' points in his latest release? Maybe you can add in some of your own "Root causes"?

Got to admit he is far more humble

I mean....

No more restoration of the Global Caliphate, the return of Andalusia. There is no more anticipation that Islam will sweep the world. No more boasting that Americans run at the slightest wounds. He is not talking about future operations to swathe the world in fire but dwelling on past glories. He is basically saying if you leave us alone we will leave you alone.

..wonder why?

Again, time to stop making excuses for the piece of garbage.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by HOZ@Nov 1 2004, 02:16 PM
Do you, like Clearen, think he made some 'good' points in his latest release? Maybe you can add in some of your own "Root causes"?

Interesting. Tucker Carlson said last night that he thinks its time for America to try and digest more of the message and learn "why they hate us so much". He said that three years later and America still does not understand why America is hated so much and maybe its time to try and figure it out? What does that tell you HOZ?

[EddyBeers]

Originally posted by badnarik@Nov 1 2004, 05:28 AM

if you are talking about the recent report of 100,000 killed, the report shows that the researchers were 95% certain that there were between 8,000 and 194,000 dead. thats quite a margin of error. not very convincing to me

Well, I heard 100,000, but you may be right it may be as low as 8000, although the lowest number I have seen reported is around 14000. Whatever it is at least 3 times as many as that massacre on 9/11 that Saddam orchestrated. Here is a good website to look at if you want to see what the Americans are doing over there

http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

[Claeren]

Something the president of Iraq said today that i think applies generally in much of the 'war on terror':

"The coalition's handling of this crisis is wrong. It's like someone who fired bullets at his horse's head just because a fly landed on it; the horse died and the fly went away," Yawar said.

The problem is that thousands of innocent people are dying... ? How does that not have a net-destructive effect on restoring order within ANY situation? You support surgeons who cut off an arm to remove a wart on a finger. And not even the right arm at that... !

Bin Laden's message consisted of 20+ minutes of talking, to reduce it to one line is stupid and short sighted. He has been hunted for over a decade by what is apparently the best and most capable nation on the planet (by a huge margin) and has survived (seemingly with relative ease). Yet after 3 years of war, billions of dollars spent, thousands of lives lost, G.W.Bush is the best option? He is a hero? He has done a good job?

Bin Laden can still say whatever he wants, however he wants, to whomever he wants because America and Bush has failed in the war on terror.

As i said before, your blind following of an incapable president is an insult to all those who lost their lives on 9/11, those very same lives you seem so attached to. The fact people like you and your little ultra-right minions can't ask a single tough question of your leadership and get an honest and straight forward answer is dispicable and pathetic. You are suggesting we defend a 'piece of garbage' and that we should stop... kind of sad that a piece of trash gives you so much trouble, no? It would concern me but i guess you are all about the blind faith and optimism and not so much about logic and results?


Claeren.

[Hot_Sauce]

Take a quick look at cnn.com foxnews.com .... further release of the bin laden tape indicates his ultimate goal is to bankrupt the US.....saying they did it to the Russians for 10 years....every $1 spent by them costs the US $1million?!?

[HOZ]

Originally posted by Lanny_MacDonald+Nov 1 2004, 02:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Lanny_MacDonald @ Nov 1 2004, 02:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-HOZ@Nov 1 2004, 02:16 PM
Do you, like Clearen, think he made some 'good' points in his latest release? Maybe you can add in some of your own "Root causes"?

Interesting. Tucker Carlson said last night that he thinks its time for America to try and digest more of the message and learn "why they hate us so much". He said that three years later and America still does not understand why America is hated so much and maybe its time to try and figure it out? What does that tell you HOZ? [/b][/quote]
Lanny, like the apologist left...you are pathetic. That is what I think.

I mean there is always good reasons why people hate right? Maybe we should re-look at the KKK's views on Blacks. They may have a point. They hate...there is a good reason...right?

Like I said above..maybe those Canucks deserved kill'n. Maybe you'd like to volunteer you and your family to act as a shield for us against Bin Hind'n's next righteous onslaught?

I mean he has a point right?

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by Hot_Sauce@Nov 2 2004, 02:19 PM
Take a quick look at cnn.com foxnews.com .... further release of the bin laden tape indicates his ultimate goal is to bankrupt the US.....saying they did it to the Russians for 10 years....every $1 spent by them costs the US $1million?!?

That's very interesting. That was the exact thing I suggested here about a month ago, that the United States may fall victim to their own strategy that Reagan used to bring down the Soviets. Its a good strategy and proven to work. All you need is a leader that is not intouch with reality who will spend the million bucks to chase you. This is where Dubya comes in. Not only does he increase the recruiting efforts for al Qeada, but I think he even out spends their expectations as well. Four more years?

[Hot_Sauce]

It is obvious to realize that this methodology would work for them but how long can the Muslim world tolerate the huge losses of civilians? The war in Iraq has cost the Americans billions and Al Queda pratically nothing by comparison in real dollars but the real vistim is still the average Joe in the middle east left wondering where half his family is and where his next meal is coming from.

[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally posted by HOZ@Nov 2 2004, 02:29 PM
Lanny, like the apologist left...you are pathetic. That is what I think.

I mean there is always good reasons why people hate right? Maybe we should re-look at the KKK's views on Blacks. They may have a point. They hate...there is a good reason...right?

Like I said above..maybe those Canucks deserved kill'n. Maybe you'd like to volunteer you and your family to act as a shield for us against Bin Hind'n's next righteous onslaught?

I mean he has a point right?

Interesting. I should volunteer to defend against bin Laden. Why? I have no axe to grind with bin Laden and bin Laden has no axe to grind with me. I am against American foreign policy and think it needs to be heavily revised. I see no threat from terrorists. I don't buy into the whole "scare mongering", for obvious reasons.

But you, otoh, are a big toadie to the Bush admin and think they are so right, maybe YOU should consider enlisting and defending America and the free world. You readily buy into the scare mongering and buy the BS that the government tells people in an attempt to control them. Maybe you should get on a plane, fly on over from Japan, and get your butt into uniform and shoulder a weapon in defense of freedom, hero.

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by HOZ@Nov 2 2004, 02:29 PM
Lanny, like the apologist left...you are pathetic. That is what I think.

I mean there is always good reasons why people hate right? Maybe we should re-look at the KKK's views on Blacks. They may have a point. They hate...there is a good reason...right?

Like I said above..maybe those Canucks deserved kill'n. Maybe you'd like to volunteer you and your family to act as a shield for us against Bin Hind'n's next righteous onslaught?

I mean he has a point right?

There's always someone around to discredit the right-wing angle. Jeez, you guys shoot yourselves in the foot w/ this tripe. Can't you stick to the issue w/out calling someone pathetic?