[Trade] Canucks trade Jared McCann, 2nd, 4th to Panthers for Erik Gudbranson + 5th

[SuperMatt18]

Benning is the best.

Admitted they called Vancouver first (probably not that surprising)

Admitted they asked us for McCann and then offered up Gudbranson (feels like they just did whatever Florida asked) but then you felt the need to throw in 2 high picks.

Then says they acquired Gudbranson to counteract the fast skilled forwards that the division rivals have - after he was abused by the fast skilled forwards the Islanders had in the first round.

[GranteedEV]

24 year old Jyrki Jokipakka, acquired as a throw-in in a deal centered around a 2nd round pick for a pending UFA:



24 year old Erik Gudbranson, acquired as the centerpiece in a deal where a 2nd Round Pick + former 1st round pick (who was progessing well) were sent the other way:

[Fighting Banana Slug]

^^ So they are about the same? I don't understand the performance tiers where there are no "number bubbles".

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

24 year old Jyrki Jokipakka, acquired as a throw-in in a deal centered around a 2nd round pick for a pending UFA:



24 year old Erik Gudbranson, acquired as the centerpiece in a deal where a 2nd Round Pick + former 1st round pick (who was progessing well) were sent the other way:

"A throw in"? Seriously?

When the Russell trade occurred I was of the opinion that Jokipakka was the centrepiece.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

^^ So they are about the same? I don't understand the performance tiers where there are no "number bubbles".

I think (and I could be reading this wrong ) it shows Jokipakka to be a 'stay at home defenseman' who, while he doesn't contribute a ton of offense, does do a good job of limiting shots in his own Zone.

Whereas Gudbranson is a defensive defenseman who just can't score but is mean. A Deryk Engelland type.

Is that what it says?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Chris Nichols@NicholsOnHockey
Jim Benning says on 590 "they called us first" in Gudbranson-McCann trade talks. #Canucks #FlaPanthers

Well Benning, if I'm a GM, I'm definitely calling you first.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

^^ So they are about the same? I don't understand the performance tiers where there are no "number bubbles".

Jokipakka is a much better point producer (Upper-tier top 4 rate) vs Gudbranson (Barely Bottom Pair rate)

Gudbranson is a superior influence on shot attempt generation (top 4 rate) vs Jokipakka (Not top 6 calibre)

Jokipakka is a superior influence on shot attempt suppression (bottom pair rate) vs Gudbranson (not top 6 calibre)

Both overall lack useful relative possession rates expected of top 6 defensemen.

Overall, it seems Jokipakka is better. Despite costing us a fraction as much.

Originally Posted by Textcritic

"A throw in"? Seriously?

When the Russell trade occurred I was of the opinion that Jokipakka was the centrepiece.

Jokipakka was one among a handful of depth D on the Stars (along with Nemeth/Oleksiak) who were all in tough to make their lineup with Johns, Lindell, and Honka pushing for spots. I'm thinking in order of importance to the Stars, it went

(1st if it actually worked out)
Pollock or 2nd
Jokipakka

[albertGQ]

I don't know what the chart says. Can someone dummy it down for me?

[SuperMatt18]

Chart says that Gudbranson is about the equivalent quality of player to Jokipakka - and the Canucks just gave up a good young center, 33rd overall pick, and a high 4th round pick for him.

Whereas the Flames got Jokipakka, a 2nd, & a good prospect for Kris Russell.

[d_phaneuf]

but as is the problem when looking at only a few of the fancy stats

it doesn't factor in things like Zone Starts (where Gudbranson led the Panthers in DZ by a large margin) or Quality of competition etc.

not commenting on the trade, just that stats can be cherry picked either way to show a point

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Chart says that Gudbranson is about the equivalent quality of player to Jokipakka - and the Canucks just gave up a good young center, 33rd overall pick, and a high 4th round pick for him.

Whereas the Flames got Jokipakka, a 2nd, & a good prospect for Kris Russell.

to me it shows they both performed similar, one playing 1st pairing minutes in a shutdown role, while the other playing 3rd pairing minutes in a secondary role

the competition has a lot to do with stats like that and unless im reading wrong they aren't included

[Coach]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Jokipakka is a much better point producer (Upper-tier top 4 rate) vs Gudbranson (Barely Bottom Pair rate)

Gudbranson is a superior influence on shot attempt generation (top 4 rate) vs Jokipakka (Not top 6 calibre)

Jokipakka is a superior influence on shot attempt suppression (bottom pair rate) vs Gudbranson (not top 6 calibre)

Both overall lack useful relative possession rates expected of top 6 defensemen.

Overall, it seems Jokipakka is better. Despite costing us a fraction as much.



Jokipakka was one among a handful of depth D on the Stars (along with Nemeth/Oleksiak) who were all in tough to make their lineup with Johns, Lindell, and Honka pushing for spots. I'm thinking in order of importance to the Stars, it went

(1st if it actually worked out)
Pollock or 2nd
Jokipakka

Gotta disagree. The 1st would have been the centrepiece, but it dropping to a second makes Jokipakka the best part of the deal IMO.

Whenever I watched the Flames play the Stars, he always stood out to me and his name was being called a lot. I was happy when he came, and hoping he would be part of the deal when we heard it was the Stars.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

to me it shows they both performed similar, one playing 1st pairing minutes in a shutdown role, while the other playing 3rd pairing minutes in a secondary role

the competition has a lot to do with stats like that and unless im reading wrong they aren't included

Gudbranson never played 1st pairing minutes though. At ES (which is what possession stats are based on) he was 5th on Florida's defense in TOI/G.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

it doesn't factor in things like Zone Starts (where Gudbranson led the Panthers in DZ by a large margin) or Quality of competition etc.

Yes, it does. The QoC / OZS context is classified underneath each player's name.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Gudbranson never played 1st pairing minutes though. At ES (which is what possession stats are based on) he was 5th on Florida's defense in TOI/G.

That chart even noted this fact. "Role: Bottom pairing dman"

[Tinordi]

Terrible trade for Vancouver. It's the picks that ruin it. Gudbranson is not a top four defender. Look at his advanced stats: his ceiling is Bryan Allen.

[CaptainCrunch]

Wonder if this trade was influenced by Engelland's performance last year in the playoffs and after Gio went down.

He ran rough shod over the opposition, was able to play top minutes and was a physical menace.

If that's the case they basically picked up a Engelland for a pretty good prospect a high second round pick.

To me its a really bad trade.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

"A throw in"? Seriously?

When the Russell trade occurred I was of the opinion that Jokipakka was the centrepiece.

I agree, I feel Joki was a the very least equally as important as the pick. Treliving clearly wanted a pick and roster player with long term potentially. Calling Joki an after thought or interchangeable part of that deal is some serious twisting of the facts to bash the Nucks.

[mikephoen]

Is it just me, or do the various advanced stats sites have some sort of competition going on to see which site can produce the most unintelligible charts and graphs possible.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

Is it just me, or do the various advanced stats sites have some sort of competition going on to see which site can produce the most unintelligible charts and graphs possible.

It's all a massive rouse. The only thing advanced about these stats is that they have gone out of their way to burry the "so what" of the information beneath the dumbest charts and graphs possible.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Frankly, it annoys the hell out of me that he did that.

On the old HERO and Warrior charts, it was absolutely obvious what was being represented. The downfall of a lot of graphics made by people doing stats work in hockey is that they're made by stats nerds for stats nerds - the goal is to convince the small subset of people who are already aware of past work what new thing you've figured out and push analytics forward, not to educate the casual fan. Which is great, for those of us who spend a lot of time looking at those sorts of things, but HERO charts were the exception and traded on their intuitive layout.

Now he's just tried to jam so much information into the chart that it's useless to the average person who's never seen one before.