Clayton Keller 2016 U18 Highlights from bigwhite06
Wow, I see how he gets talked about as one of the most talented players in the draft potentially.
He looks like Gaudreau out there.
I am flip flopping a lot right now for who the flames should pick but wow this kid looks like a slightly taller Gaudreau. If it was between him and Nylander I honestly wouldnt mind picking Keller. Might give up a bit on size but this kid seems to be more skilled. Having two pure skill players on the top two lines would be pretty sweet.The draft cannot come soon enough!
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No one loves "black and blue" hockey more than me, but I want the Flames to take Keller. Gaudreau and Keller as the offensive catalysts on line 1 and 2, Monahan and Bennett as 1a and 1b centres and fill the rest of the 8 forward spots with truculence.
That's how I want to see the team built up front.
yeah, I really like Keller too...
tough call tho... is keller worth a 6th? or do you roll the dice and trade down a few spots?
I think Nylander's skill matches up well with Keller, but Keller seems to have a little bit more of a competitive edge?
I am just hoping to get someone that can mesh well with Bennett to create a line 1B...
ive come to the conclusion that picking 6th looks to be the worst spot in this draft. I think had we picked 1-3 or 5, the choice would have been fairly obvious. Had we been pushed back to 7th-8th, I think we could have drafted a Brown or Keller without it being too much of a reach, especially with the varying reports on the defenceman available. But taking Brown or Keller at 6 just seems a stretch.
How far away is Keller deemed to be? Would he only spend 1 year at Boston college? Or would he need longer?
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ive come to the conclusion that picking 6th looks to be the worst spot in this draft. I think had we picked 1-3 or 5, the choice would have been fairly obvious. Had we been pushed back to 7th-8th, I think we could have drafted a Brown or Keller without it being too much of a reach, especially with the varying reports on the defenceman available. But taking Brown or Keller at 6 just seems a stretch.
How far away is Keller deemed to be? Would he only spend 1 year at Boston college? Or would he need longer?
Just a silly way to look at it imo. Every spot behind 6th is worse pick then the 6th.
If the Flames believe that Brown or Keller are best available players then who cares? They're all top 10 prospects. Would it matter if you take one at 6th instead of 8th or 9th? doubt it. Take the best available player unless you have 2-3 guys that you like and you can move down couple spots.
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ive come to the conclusion that picking 6th looks to be the worst spot in this draft. I think had we picked 1-3 or 5, the choice would have been fairly obvious. Had we been pushed back to 7th-8th, I think we could have drafted a Brown or Keller without it being too much of a reach, especially with the varying reports on the defenceman available. But taking Brown or Keller at 6 just seems a stretch.
How far away is Keller deemed to be? Would he only spend 1 year at Boston college? Or would he need longer?
Ya it's a tough spot. Pressure is on to make the right pick.
Keller skill wise would probably be ready in draft +2 year but might be best to let him develop physically for another year. He also won't be 18 till the end of July 5'10 170 right now. Could fill out to 5'11 185.
That isn't what I heard Benning say. I heard him say these guys are second tier defenders, and if you are prepared for that upside you may be happy with the pick. That is kind of my take on it as well. I didn't see a defenseman that wowed me or made me believe they would be top end talents, let alone top pairing players.
Here's the interview in question again. FFWD to 6 mins.
He specifically says 1st pairing guys, they can be a good #2. He also has a very tight definition of #1 defenseman, says there's only 8-10 in the entire NHL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Era
That is indeed possible. All I know is that I don't see a defenseman in the top three that I would want to invest a high pick in. I don't see the complete package like the top defensemen from other drafts have had. I don't see a defenseman with skills any better than Andersson has displayed for example. Chychryn's biggest claim to fame is his skating and I think Kylington is the better skater. If there was a guy that could play a good hard nosed physical game in these three I might be inclined to go after that guy, but I don't see any of them being able to play that role. Just my opinion. We'll see how it plays out.
Andersson does look very promising, I think he's got good 2nd pairing potential. Extremely good at rushing the puck. Not sure he'll ever be dominant in his own zone but I think he can be a good all around defensemen with good offensive skills.
As for Kylington vs Chychrun I think they are very different types of players. I see Kylington as a pure offensive defenseman at the moment. He's very slight still and is never going to be huge. Definitely an adventure in his own end at times. But he's got NHL skating and puck rushing. Can quarterback the powerplay. Chychrun is much more polished defensively with his stick work and positioning. He'll end up much bigger and much stronger. I think Chychrun can be a guy that can play in all situations and eat up minutes. Kylington may have to be a bit more sheltered against the opposition's best and biggest forwards.
I think the offensive potential of the prospects we have on defense is fabulous. But are any of them going to be staples on the powerplay AND the penalty kill? Would you be comfortable matching up Kylington and Andersson vs the opposition's best forwards? I think some of the d-men in this draft are very well rounded and match up better physically against big forwards. Sergachev, Chychrun and Juolevi could end up as guys that can play in all situations.
Anyways, it will be interesting to see how it goes.
Last edited by Flames Draft Watcher; 05-08-2016 at 12:59 AM.
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Count me in as someone that would be happier with Keller than Nylander if the Flames are going for straight skill. I really do think that Keller just has more skill.
He isn't my favorite player available for the Flames to draft, but to me, he seems more of that 'game-breaker' or a guy that can drive offence more than Nylander.
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Just a silly way to look at it imo. Every spot behind 6th is worse pick then the 6th.
If the Flames believe that Brown or Keller are best available players then who cares? They're all top 10 prospects. Would it matter if you take one at 6th instead of 8th or 9th? doubt it. Take the best available player unless you have 2-3 guys that you like and you can move down couple spots.
It was a bit of a flippant comment. It just seems that the guys that have the neccessary combination of skill and size that we need are either likely gone by 6 or are too far away to take at 6. Yes, you could just take Brown or Keller at 6, but I think Nylander is a better prospect according to the experts. I think passing him up to take Brown because he probably fits our needs better is a silly idea that could backfire.
As for moving down a couple of spots, it's not that easy. Who trades up with you and why? If the rankings from 4-15 are so interchangeable, why does a Montreal or an Ottawa or a Boston move up? Don't see it happening. Also, if Trelivings "ledge" comments are true, it suggest to me that the top 6 in their mind is already set and they intend to stay put. So whoever we take at 6 is the player they deem BPA.
Saying all that though, I believe that Tkachuk is available to us at 6 and we take him. So it's all good.
As for moving down a couple of spots, it's not that easy. Who trades up with you and why? If the rankings from 4-15 are so interchangeable, why does a Montreal or an Ottawa or a Boston move up? Don't see it happening.
I see it as being extremely easy to move down in drafts like this where the rankings are so close. Why would they want to move up? To grab a guy they have rated in their top 5-6. If they think there's a ledge at some point they would be very motivated to grab a guy in that upper tier. Or while they see a bunch of players as close there may be a particular player who just fits their needs and philosophy better than the rest.
These types of drafts where the players from 4-20 are so close are where there is a ton of potential for moving up and down. Teams may move down because they like multiple players left and still think one of their preferred players will be there a few spots later. Teams may move up to get that guy that they their scouts love more than the others. Sometimes teams just fall in love with particular players in drafts like this.
For example imagine a scenario where a team is in dire need of a top two line centre with size. If they just love Brown and have him top 5 they may be willing to offer up a lot to secure him. Meanwhile another team may have 5-6 players rated fairly equally with no strong preference and thus be willing to move down a few spots. Trading up/down (with the exception of into the top 3) should be easier in this kind of draft then some others.
Is it just my eyes or is that Keller kid a better skater than Johnny ?
Might depend what in particular you are referring to by skating. Straight ahead speed? First two steps? Lateral agility?
IMO Gaudreau has more lateral agility. I think he shows more potential to beat guys by leaning one direction and then exploding in a different direction. I tend to view Gaudreau as the better overall skater myself, more elusive.
Keller sure is a great passer though. Finds some incredible cross ice seams that I'm not even sure Gaudreau is as good at finding. He shows great ability to set up guys from behind the net as well. I think Gaudreau looks more elusive though, has more potential to beat defensemen one on one through agility, anticipation and explosive acceleration in different directions.
Personally I think Keller is a guy you'd be ecstatic to land outside the top 10. I doubt he's in the Flames top 6. So many attractive players in this top 20 or so, its no insult to them to think they're in that 10-15 range. A team might have him top 10 who emphasizes pure skill above all else, lacks pure skill, or has enough big, strong forwards to surround him. With us having little Johnny already I don't think its ideal to add another super skilled tiny dynamo with a pick this high.
Last edited by Flames Draft Watcher; 05-08-2016 at 01:32 AM.
I know some of you don't wanna talk about this guy anymore or don't think we have any chance at him (and we probably don't unless EDM trades the pick or we trade up) but since he's one of the few draft eligibles playing that we could possibly get.....
Here's some Tkachuk (and Juolevi) highlights from the OHL Finals
FDW, do you have Chychrun as your guy at number 6?
Haven't really been able to form a strong opinion on who I like best outside of Dubois/Tkachuk because I haven't seen enough of the dmen to have an informed opinion on them. But I do believe that at least one of them must have top pairing potential and I think top pairing dmen are amongst the most valuable commodities in the NHL.
So for me it's whichever dman the Flames scouts think is the best one. I think we're an organization that knows the value of dmen.
As for Chychrun in particular I have seen him more than Sergachev and Juolevi. I have some concerns on his decision making at the U18s but he has all the tools you'd want in a top pairing dman. Are his current issues something that can be remedied by experience, coaching and development? Or does he lack that elite hockey sense and will it limit his potential? I'm sure the Flames scouts will be able to answer that question and the answer to that question is whether he should be seen as a premium prospect this draft or more of a secondary one.
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"I've tried to spend most of my time looking bottom-up. Plan for where you could be at eight and go from there," said the Flames GM. "Right now, you're just running through the eight names. Or, sometimes I come up with seven and kinda stop there."
Going into the lottery, Treliving talked about ledges. He said that as the team saw it, there was a line after the top three. No surprise there. Matthews and the fantastic Finns really separated themselves from the pack.
"Then after six, I've got another line there," he said. "Then there's seven and there might be a little bit of a drop to eight."
"Once you get to four, things could fall different ways as different teams have different guys at No. 4," said Treliving.
While Jakob Chychrun (Sarnia, OHL) was the top ranked blueliner for much of the year, there seems to be some volatility with this player. Seems some teams don't regard him nearly as high as others like Olli Juolevi (London, OHL) and Mikhail Sergachev (Windsor, OHL) . Treliving said once you get into the defencemen, preferences seem to be all over the map.
"It's unique that if you talk to 10 people, you might get 10 different names in terms of a consensus top defenceman. They have different attributes, different traits. Once you get into that 6, 7, 8 range, there's going to be lots and lots of debate."
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Ya it's a tough spot. Pressure is on to make the right pick.
Keller skill wise would probably be ready in draft +2 year but might be best to let him develop physically for another year. He also won't be 18 till the end of July 5'10 170 right now. Could fill out to 5'11 185.
Yeah, I see him as a more skilled, Hudler sized player.
Got to love it when there is legitimate arguments for all the players rated from 4-14 or so being picked at any position.
It's unusual to have so many players that are so close overall. Most of it depends on what thing you are placing emphasis on.
I think I'm at the point where I really don't care who they pick. As you mentioned, there are so many options available at 6 that it is a difficult selection. The best player, outside the top three, from this draft could come from anywhere in the next dozen players. I just hope the Flames manage to find that player, and if they don't, find a player that addresses our most pressing organizational need.
