CBC article on 2016 SURVEY OF MUSLIMS IN CANADA

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

I think there's also a difference between being a Muslim in Canada vs. UK/Europe.

Things seem a bit more crazy across the ocean...

Absolutely. Muslims in Europe tend to be less educated, more religious, and less integrated with the rest of society. While most Western Europen countries are even more socially liberal than Canada. It's not at all surprising that there's alienation and resentment.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I am extremely proud, but may view my be tainted as an immigrant.

Yeah, nationalism just does nothing for me. To pull a peter12 for a minute, and because I know you have some personal experience in the area, two really good books on nationalism are Michael Ignatieff's Blood and Belonging, and then sort of the "quintessential" book on nationalism is Benedict Anderson's Imagined Communities.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I'm not a member of any religion and I can still think of about 8 things I am before I'd say "I'm Canadian."

Good ole' Islamophobia.

Just curious, but what would some of those eight things be? I don't belong to a (or believe in any) religion either, but I really don't know what I'd say before "I'm Canadian". Depends on the context I guess.

Also, I don't get the calls of Islamophobia in this thread. I can't speak to the motivations of any of the posters involved, but it seems to be a pretty benign discussion about a survey/discussion conducted by the CBC.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Also, I don't get the calls of Islamophobia in this thread. I can't speak to the motivations of any of the posters involved, but it seems to be a pretty benign discussion about a survey/discussion conducted by the CBC.

For me it was this:

Originally Posted by taco.vidal

CBC has a few articles today about young Muslim Canadians. Some eye opening stuff. Some really important things to consider as the Muslim population grows in Canada.

[jayswin]

Yeah, despite any discussion that has arisen in the thread, the OP was pretty clear in his intention.

[RougeUnderoos]

Ah, fair enough. I did the cardinal sin of scanning the post and clicking the link. I know we're supposed to do it the other way around!

[HarryH93]

I have noticed that Taco usually likes to bring things up about Muslims on these forums. I'm not sure if it's just me, but it's definitely odd.

Not sure what the big deal is here. Why is this "eye opening" ?

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by HarryH93

I have noticed that Taco usually likes to bring things up about Muslims on these forums. I'm not sure if it's just me, but it's definitely odd.

Not sure what the big deal is here. Why is this "eye opening" ?

If it's the same taco that posted on Beyond then no surprise as that guy was obviously a racist.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I'm not a member of any religion and I can still think of about 8 things I am before I'd say "I'm Canadian."

Good ole' Islamophobia.

Assuming you are a Canadian name even 4 and I'll believe you, otherwise I think your full of sh..

[Tinordi]

Ooga Booga

[T@T]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

If it's the same taco that posted on Beyond then no surprise as that guy was obviously a racist.

Maybe your the racist? The race card is in full force these days but in reality it has nothing to do with skin color or how people look or dress.

Just because someone talks down about Muslims/Islam doesn't make them a racist, believe it or not there's a huge difference between a bigot on religion and a racist.

[taco.vidal]

There was a lot of good discussion that the CBC hosted.

The first post was changed. Its an important issue globally and locally. The article did a decent job of being informative and creating some good discussion. That was the intent of the initial post which didnt appear to work.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by T@T

Just because someone talks down about Muslims/Islam doesn't make them a racist, believe it or not there's a huge difference between a bigot on religion and a racist.

There does seem to be a double standard when it comes to religion. If I express concern about the practices of fundamentalist Christians, and their influence on social policy such as women's rights, abortion, education, etc. (and I do), that's cool. Because people are imaging rural conservative Americans and Canadians. And screw those guys. But if I express concern about the attitudes of conservative Muslims for the same reason, that's racist, because people are imaging non-white immigrants. And criticizing them makes you a bigot.

So conservative Christians are a threat to liberalism that we need to be vigilant about. Whereas conservative Muslims are part of the rich tapestry of modern Canada. It's like race cancels out conservatism in the eyes of many (even though Muslim isn't a race).

[Fuzz]

^
I think part of that might be becuase Christians have actual influence in political and social policies, where Muslims are such a minority, and typically not in positions to implement their views in Canada. Make no mistake, if we had a Muslim Stephen Harper as Prime Minister, there would be no shortage of condemnation going on, and I don't think you would be called a bigot for doing it.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

^
I think part of that might be becuase Christians have actual influence in political and social policies, where Muslims are such a minority, and typically not in positions to implement their views in Canada. Make no mistake, if we had a Muslim Stephen Harper as Prime Minister, there would be no shortage of condemnation going on, and I don't think you would be called a bigot for doing it.

Stephen Harper was elected, in part, because a lot of social conservatives voted him. Many of those social conservatives were non-white (Harper came to power by breaking through in the immigrant-rich ridings of greater Toronto). And it was mainly conservative non-white parents, including Muslims, who tried to overturn new sex education policies recently in Ontario.

So I disagree that socially conservative non-whites, including Muslims, have little effect on public policy in Canada. But people don't like cognitive dissonance, so the chattering classes close their eyes to this stuff.

[sharkov]

Does that mean an atheist would always put their country first?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Stephen Harper was elected, in part, because a lot of social conservatives voted him. Many of those social conservatives were non-white (Harper came to power by breaking through in the immigrant-rich ridings of greater Toronto). And it was mainly conservative non-white parents, including Muslims, who tried to overturn new sex education policies recently in Ontario.

So I disagree that socially conservative non-whites, including Muslims, have little effect on public policy in Canada. But people don't like cognitive dissonance, so the chattering classes close their eyes to this stuff.

Fair enough points. Though visibly, if you were to ask someone who Harper was representing more, Christians or Muslims, you know what the answer would be. I was suggesting that if you had someone who looked Muslim as PM and did a few of the things Harper did you would have people yelling form the rooftops, and they wouldn't be accused of Islamophobic at that point...or I dunno, maybe they would. Anyone denouncing Harper's Israeli stance was instantly denounced as anti-Semitic.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Yeah, nationalism just does nothing for me. To pull a peter12 for a minute, and because I know you have some personal experience in the area, two really good books on nationalism are Michael Ignatieff's Blood and Belonging, and then sort of the "quintessential" book on nationalism is Benedict Anderson's Imagined Communities.

Thanks I will look into those.


Your position on this doesn't make me like you any less.

[polak]

Originally Posted by sharkov

Does that mean an atheist would always put their country first?

I'm a brunette first, Canadian second.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Outside of nationality and religion, what other label could one use legitimately? Occupation? Calgarian? Flames fan? Vegan? I honestly don't get past Canadian, but is that a white guy thing? Should I first say "white guy"?

Edit: I probably could add ethnicity as distinct from nationality. Still, that is way down the list for me.