2016 NHL Draft

[memphusk]

This has probably been asked already, but when Las Vegas gets an expansion team, what position will they draft in?

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by memphusk

This has probably been asked already, but when Las Vegas gets an expansion team, what position will they draft in?

I believe some one reported no higher than 3rd. Although that is not set in stone.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by memphusk

This has probably been asked already, but when Las Vegas gets an expansion team, what position will they draft in?

I'd guess top three in the 2017 draft but if I was paying $.5B I'd hold out for the #1 overall.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by memphusk

This has probably been asked already, but when Las Vegas gets an expansion team, what position will they draft in?

In the 2016 Draft? They won't have a pick at all.

If they get awarded a team for 2017, for next year's draft, I suspect they'll get slotted into the #4 Draft position for the first round without participation in the lottery. That's based on nothing other that a pure guess on my part.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I just don't understand why we'd need multiple bullets at a position we're already stacked at. Monahan is a potential franchise centre. So is Bennett IMO. Both are on another class completely than McLeod. Then we'd have Jankowski, Backlund and McLeod fighting over the 3rd line centre role? Just doesn't make sense to me when we could draft a winger with size who fits our immediate and long term needs.

Who's available through trade? We can't possibly know. But Treliving has a ton of picks/prospects that can be moved for a right shot winger.

/sigh. I feel like Im talking to a brick wall. Center is not as stacked as you're trying to sell. But whatever, we're not to win this debate. And I don't think Bennett is a lock for "Franchise center". Franchise player? Yes. Not at that position specifically.


And you're still cementing Jankowsi into something that may or may not come to fruition, and basing your opinion on a what if? And you're also talking like it is a foregone fact that Mcleod will never impove his offense. Which is ridiculous. You're form fitting your argument in a way that the ONLY players who have a future are the ones you prefer. Whats more arrogant? Me not buying into publication lists knowing full well and explaining why I believe a player like McLeod can rank high on the Flames list or you shutting it down every bleeding chance you get.

I'm not underratting other players like Dubois or Tkachuk, I know full well what they are, you won't ever let us forget! But what I don't see is you trying to see through what you read about McLeod or completely ignoring another publication because they rank a player higher than than others and slamming them because it's not fitting your POV.

McLeod is a point of contention between you and I and others because you're turning on blinders and forming weak arguments as to why the Flames should not take him. "But we're stacked at C" No we aren't, we're slightly deeper there than RW and on par with LW. we have one #1 C, maybe another who may be a better fit at LW which still needs to be determined, two 2-3 centers and one is a vet and one is an unknown as of right now. You can never have too many C's in the system!

What the Flames do not have is a legit top 6 projecting RH shot at fw. Someting McLeod can be. But because he is ranked #10 he's no good to the Flames just because.

EDIT: If we end up with a Finn this is all for nothing because we'll all be happy as clams we got what we think the Flames sorely needed. But after them, Nylander and McLeod are neck and neck as it sits today for me. I think the Flames can live without a Dubois or Tkachuk, not because they suck, but because there are greater more dire needs the Flames can address in this draft. Which is where you disagree which is fine, but we're not going to change each others minds.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Well we'll agree to disagree. I know you feel I've got blinders on and am forming weak arguments and I think the same of you in regards to McLeod. I don't think I'm overselling our depth at centre at all, we have four 1st rounders including two top 6 picks. Two potential 1st line centres, a guy who is playing as a 2nd line centre (Backlund) and then a bonus prospect who also projects as a top two line centre. That's pretty insane centre depth. Sure Bennett could be switched to wing but we drafted him as a centre and moved him to centre late in the year.

Anyways you know my thoughts, I know yours. We don't seem to be able to persuade each other even an inch so let's call it a draw.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Switching someone from centre to wing is a complete change of position. Certainly it is done at times but you have to see what their strengths are. Attributes that are good on the wing include speed, winning board battles, great shot. Attributes that are good at centre include two-way play, playmaking, face-offs, basically most of the things that McLeod excels at. I think McLeod's skill set makes him a natural centre.

Eh, that's such a simplistic way of looking at the positions.

Of course teams prefer to have their best two-way players at center, but being strong at two-way play does not hurt you at wing (hence why guys like Pacioretty, Marchand, Palat, Hossa are such effective wingers. Centers are going to take the majority of faceoffs, but if you can have a line with a LH C and a RH C, with one of the centers playing wing, you can shuffle the faceoff-takers based on the side of ice they're on. The Flyers/Kings did it somewhat with Richards/Carter, and the Sharks do it extensively with Thornton/Pavelski. Keeping guys on their strong side improves their own faceoff percentages and ultimately the team's faceoff stats.

And playmaking is a useful attribute for any position just as goal scoring is. Was St. Louis / Stamkos a bad pair because the playmaker was on the wing and the goal scorer at center? No, less conventional though. Our own top LW / C combo skews towards a speedy playmaker at W and natural goal scorer at C.

I do think you want speed down the middle to get out of tricky defensvie situations - that's why I want Sam Bennett at center. But I don't see how having speed and two-way play like what McLeod brings on the wings hurt anyone, being able to cover the points efficiently is a huge part of a team defense.

What else helps Mike McLeod at either forward position? He is incredibly hard on the puck, he goes into corners and he battles. All the makings are there for, again, and Ondrej Palat type that can be a nightmare on the forecheck.

The only reason to question McLeod is if you think he's only going to be a 12-15 goal scorer at the NHL level. If you think there's potential for a 25+ goal scorer there then the rest of the tools are a good reason to take him that high. Converting him to a right wing that can take key faceoffs is a good thing.

A 22-25 goal Mike McLeod at RW would be ahead of Tkachuk and Nylander for me. But based on his stats I'm not sure if that's a realistic expectation.

His, or Rubtsov, or Dubois, or Matthews', or Keller's "natural" center position has almost no bearing on their values as forwards for us. It's a good bonus, and if you need a center it might be a tie-breaker, but that's about all. Heck Treliving has brought in the likes of Drew Shore and Freddie Hamilton, both natural centers, and tried them on the Johnny-Monny line. Players that I don't think are as capable as McLeod.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Well said GranteedEV. Through all the arguing my opinion on McLeod has changed a touch so good work McLeod fans

I guess we'll see if the Flames OHL scouts are as in love with McLeod as Grant McKagg of McKeen's is. Can't wait for the lottery.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I think what Laine has done in the playoffs has put him in serious contention for #1.

A serious scout does not get locked in on playoff performance. I do believe falling for that is called the Chris Kontos effect.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by New Era

A serious scout does not get locked in on playoff performance. I do believe falling for that is called the Chris Kontos effect.

IIRC Kontos was a grinder who never did anything outstanding until one playoffs. Laine is the #2 ranked draft prospect who is aiding his ranking. Hardly comparable.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by New Era

A serious scout does not get locked in on playoff performance. I do believe falling for that is called the Chris Kontos effect.

Say what? Pretty sure all scouts value what a player does in the playoffs or a big tournament slightly more than your average regular season game.

MacKinnon's Memorial Cup performance vaulted him to the head of the big 4 in 2013 as an example of where playoff performance did change the scouting rankings.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

As for this Canada game I really like Fabbro the more I see of him. Just so smooth and composed with the puck, really quarterbacks the power play. He is an extremely crisp passer, using hard passes when required. Redline has had him top 10 for quite a while and I can see why now. He's looked as good as Chychrun or better. Love Chychrun's skating and how willing he is to jump up though, he had a beauty wrap around attempt. I'm really liking the size/mobility combo that I've seen from Logan Stanley. Lots of room to grow there.

Just some random thoughts so far.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

More notes from CAN-CZE

-Fitzpatrick looks a lot more calm and composed than Skinner from the previous night. Liking what I've seen from his so far.
-Bitten has stood out with his never quit attitude. He's been the hardest working forward for me. Not sure about his upside at his size but I do love his compete level
-McLeod is a great skater but he doesn't stand out to me as being way faster than everyone else. I'd say he goes at top speed almost all the time but I don't think he's anywhere near as explosive as McDavid in terms of skating. I guess that is what people are saying about his motor, he goes full blast almost all the time. Love that about him. Still haven't seen much offense from him yet despite Canada having 13 goals so far.
-Fabbro and Chychrun continue to impress. It's early in this tourney but they are the only players I'd be considering with a top 10 pick so far out of the Canadians
-Still liking Logan Stanley's mobility/size. He made a great diving play to save a goal on a rebound with the goalie out of position. I wouldn't hate it if we got him late 1st/early 2nd.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

IIRC Kontos was a grinder who never did anything outstanding until one playoffs. Laine is the #2 ranked draft prospect who is aiding his ranking. Hardly comparable.

Completely comparable. Evaluations are done on a long term basis, not on a short period of time when a player gets hot. Just because Laine is playing,, and is hot right now, does not mean he is the better prospect over Matthews. Laine was 5th in scoring on his team, 5th in goals scored, trailing by three. Matthews was number two on his team in scoring and number one on his team in goal scoring, but a factor of two. He was tied for 4th in the league.

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Say what? Pretty sure all scouts value what a player does in the playoffs or a big tournament slightly more than your average regular season game.

It comes into play, but the long haul performance greatly matters more than what a few games in a playoff series means. Small windows of performance can really skew a perspective on a player, which is why scouts will view a player many times during a season, and not just watch the post season.

MacKinnon's Memorial Cup performance vaulted him to the head of the big 4 in 2013 as an example of where playoff performance did change the scouting rankings.

You honestly believe that? After over two years of hype leading up to MacKinnon's selection, you honestly believe that it was that playoff performance that put him over the top? Come on, you claim to have been following the draft for 20 years. You know better than that.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by New Era

It comes into play, but the long haul performance greatly matters more than what a few games in a playoff series means. Small windows of performance can really skew a perspective on a player, which is why scouts will view a player many times during a season, and not just watch the post season.

Agreed. But playoff games will still hold more weight. Laine was amazing at the WJC's, better in Liiga after the World Juniors and has now stepped up his game even more in the playoffs and is within reach of the playoff record for goals if he has a monster final. That's amazing for a draft eligible, amazing. He's been consistently good for a couple years now but he's improving rapidly. His skating has come miles since last years U18s. Scouts will take all of that into play and I think he's done enough to be talked about as being equal to Matthews. He has one of the best shots I've ever seen at that age in 20 years of watching draft eligibles. I'm talking Ovechkin/Stamkos like shot. The sky is the limit with this kid.

Originally Posted by New Era

You honestly believe that? After over two years of hype leading up to MacKinnon's selection, you honestly believe that it was that playoff performance that put him over the top? Come on, you claim to have been following the draft for 20 years. You know better than that.

It certainly was. Jones was ranked #1 by a lot of scouting services for most of that year. Drouin and Barkov had a lot of hype as well, Drouin outperformed MacKinnon at the WJC that year. The talk of MacKinnon as being the favorite for #1 only started after the Memorial Cup. Maybe you aren't remembering how that year went down in its entirety? There was lots of speculation that Roy and the Avs with his QMJHL connections would lean towards one of the QMJHL guys but MacKinnon at #1 wasn't solidified until the Avs actually announced before the draft that they would take him.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Some final notes from the CAN CZE game
-score finished 3-1. Canada coasted a bit after getting the 3-0 lead but Fitzpatrick the goalie kept the game in check
-Jost and Kyrou are generating the most offense so far. Honorable mention to Howden who had a great first game after getting eliminated in the WHL playoffs with Brandon the night before
-Jost is just a real smart player, manages to just barely get to loose pucks before the opposition, can come out a scrum with the puck, makes solid plays all over the ice. He's got a low centre of gravity and is very hard on the puck for his size. I think he projects as more of a 2nd line centre but probably a good pick in the teens.
-Kyrou has been quite impessive. Explosive acceleration at times. He's shown finish and playmaking. Seems to have enough size to be able to translate his style to the NHL. Wouldn't surprise me if he rises on some lists after the U18s
-Chychrun took a bad too many men penalty on the PK but the trio of Jost-Chychrun-Fabbro killed most of it
-McLeod got absolutely run over several times. He's going to need to bulk up, he isn't at NHL strength yet. He almost converted on a great pass from Howden but #8 was in the way and it got flubbed. That's all I've seen from him on offense. If I hadn't seen some of his highlights and games in the OHL I'd think he had 3rd line potential. Looks like he's missing Nylander so far maybe? I dunno. Howden and Jost look a lot more offensive
-Chychrun I like but he occasionally makes a bit of a high risk play. Still think he has all the tools to be a great NHLer. He covers so much ground when he rushes the puck its crazy
-Fabbro I'm loving so far this tournament. He never seems to make a misplay with the puck on his stick. Makes great decisions about passing/shooting

Slovakia up next on Monday night and then Finland and Puljujarvi on Tuesday I believe. Finland will be the first tough test. Meanwhile the States is absolutely running over their group, 8-2 over Russia and 6-1 over Nylander's Swedes.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if some teams have Laine ranked first. If we won the first overall, and if you take needs into consideration, he'd probably be my preferred choice.

I've been all about Matthews the whole way, but I'm starting to hope that if the Flames win #1 overall that ARI wins #2 overall and the Flames take some assets to move down one spot and take Laine.

The thought of a 6'4 200+ lb right shooting winger with an Ovi type shot is so appealing given that the Flames already have Monahan, Bennett, Backlund as centers, and Jankowski just turning pro on top of it.

[Moneyhands23]

Man...April 30th can't come soon enough! Will be great to be able to finally see where we stand and which guys will be available at that spot!

[Bunk]

If we get #1, we aren't going to be trading it, we take Matthews and turn Bennett into a winger.

To start
Gaudreau-Monahan-UFA (Eriksson, Okposo or similar)
Colborne-Backlund-Frolik
Bennett-Matthews-Shinkaruk (2nd PP unit)
Bouma-Stajan-Ferland

[Yoho]

There is no way Matthews would be put on the third line.
See McDavid and Eichel, they are just too good to slot in the lower lines.