any of y'all into working out?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Buy a juicer with high speed setting.

1-2 litres of juice everyday you will lose massive amounts of weight guaranteed at the 3-6 days in a row point. It's the most effective way to lose weight. Better than any diet ever.

Lettuce, celery, apples, lemon/lime as main ingredients.

I lost 20 pounds in 40 days after getting a juicer. Was 175 now 155 with much smaller gut and I can eat burgers and not gain weight. I recommend to anyone trying to lose the gut to do the juicing thing. Don't diet, just do normal living alongside the juice, it cleans you out like nothing else in the world. Only stays medicinal for half an hour though (enzymes degrade, nutrition decreases over time) so you gotta drink it fast.

2 litres of celery juice a day? That sounds awful, but yes if you eat that instead of regular food, you'll probably lose weight. Celery and lettuce have zero nutritional value and should be consumed primarily for fibre purposes, which you are destroying by blending them.

If you were just not juicing and eating the vegetables raw, you'd be replacing entire meals with bags of celery.

If you're capable of sticking to an awful sounding diet like this, why wouldn't you just do a healthy one that has the potential to help you gain muscle while losing weight. It sounds to me like your binging and starving. Eating nothing but celery for long periods of time and then gorging on a burger and fries. IMO you'd be better off making subtle changes to your diet. For example, eating the burger, but getting a side greens with a vinigrette and holding the mayo/cheese.

[Weitz]

Is it worth working out in an attempt to gain some muscle and jogging/running at the same time to develop better cardio?

I have heard that it should be an either or type scenario and doing both could hinder both?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Is it worth working out in an attempt to gain some muscle and jogging/running at the same time to develop better cardio?

I have heard that it should be an either or type scenario and doing both could hinder both?

I do both, but I take the approach that in life/sport you are required have both types of fitness.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Is it worth working out in an attempt to gain some muscle and jogging/running at the same time to develop better cardio?

I have heard that it should be an either or type scenario and doing both could hinder both?

Unless your goal is to be a glob of muscle, than ya, I can't see how cardio is a bad thing while weight lifting. Where did you hear you shouldn't do cardio if weightlifting? That sounds odd...

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Is it worth working out in an attempt to gain some muscle and jogging/running at the same time to develop better cardio?

I have heard that it should be an either or type scenario and doing both could hinder both?

haha no.

That's a huge myth. Unless you are doing very heavy cardio (10 km+ runs, it won't hinder your ability to gain muscle).

This is especially true if you are starting out with the weights. This might be more an issue for body builders looking to maximize muscle gains, but not regular people.

[WCan_Kid]

Originally Posted by blankall

haha no.

That's a huge myth. Unless you are doing very heavy cardio (10 km+ runs, it won't hinder your ability to gain muscle).

This is especially true if you are starting out with the weights. This might be more an issue for body builders looking to maximize muscle gains, but not regular people.

Yeah definitely one of those things that applies to specific groups, but not normal people just looking to get fit and healthy.

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Is it worth working out in an attempt to gain some muscle and jogging/running at the same time to develop better cardio?

I have heard that it should be an either or type scenario and doing both could hinder both?

I think the way in which people view losing and gaining weight is a little flawed, which is why the cardio question often comes up. This question can only be answered by looking at your current goals.

Whether you incorporate cardio or not, losing weight (ideally more fat than muscle) comes from a caloric deficit, while gaining weight (ideally more muscle than fat) comes from a caloric surplus. The incorporation of cardio will simply change the amount of energy you burn in a given day. So, the cardio question can only be answered in relation to your current goals. If your goal is to lose weight and decrease body fat, then adding cardio will help you be in a caloric deficit without requiring you to drop your caloric intake from food too low. If your goal is to gain muscle, then cardio may make it difficult to be in a caloric surplus unless you really increase your caloric intake.

The key point is that losing fat and gaining muscle are typically separate goals that cannot be done at the same time without the assistance of drugs. You can gain weight or lose weight whether you do cardio or not, depending on what your caloric intake is.

Losing weight means losing fat and some muscle, but the goal is to try and maximize fat loss while minimizing muscle loss (and the exact opposite when trying to gain lean muscle mass). The reason why people are under the impression that they are gaining muscle while also losing weight is simply because the loss of body fat, in addition to a regular weight lifting routine, begins to bring out more definition and reveal the muscles hiding underneath body fat... A balanced, yet higher protein diet, that puts you in a moderate caloric deficit, is going to help you shed body fat while hopefully minimizing muscle loss. An insane super low calorie diet with loads of cardio is going to see you lose a lot of muscle and fat very quickly.

All that said, I think it only makes sense to limit cardio if you are trying to gain muscle and weight, while increasing it if you are trying to decrease body fat and lose weight. The notion that you can lose weight on diet alone is true, but I am of the opinion that it requires you to drop your caloric intake too low, while adding cardio allows you to increase food volume, getting in more essential nutrients.

And I didn't mention weight training much, but that is based on the assumption you would incorporate that into your routine regardless of goals. As for me, I always incorporate cardio into my work out plan, whether I am trying to gain or lose weight, and simply adjust my caloric intake. Leaving in cardio is good for many reasons and simply allows me to eat more food. I do change the intensity and volume of course depending on my goals: 45 minutes 5 times a week while cutting vs 30 minutes 4 times a week while bulking sort of thing.

[heep223]

Tl;dr entire thread: eat well, eat less, and exercise.

Jokes aside - I find the debate and information on squats to be very interesting. Incorporating squats and deadlift into my strength routine has really strengthened my back and hips, improved my posture, increased flexibility and reduced back pain. People tend to have underdeveloped back and hips (myself being a prime example) and these are great exercises to strengthen them if you do them correctly while also hitting lots of other muscles. That's why they've become so popular. There are obviously also other good exercises but these are the most efficient.

Lastly I'd just add that I'm one of those people who have always had problems with squats because my hips are hella tight from years of hockey growing up and subsequently sitting at a desk for 8 years. Even when I was in great shape as a 17 year old I used to do squats in cowboy boots. Using a shoe that has a stable and elevated heel has really helped me in terms of getting into a deep squat with decent form.

[Flabbibulin]

^^^^ The entire squat debate is always interesting to me. While I understand that it has the potential to cause problems, I can say with confidence that nothing has caused me more nagging pains and ongoing issues than regular jogging/running, and not heavy compound movements like squats or dead-lifts.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

The key point is that losing fat and gaining muscle are typically separate goals that cannot be done at the same time without the assistance of drugs. You can gain weight or lose weight whether you do cardio or not, depending on what your caloric intake is.

I disagree.

I think it's true for people who've hit their wall or people who are already lean to begin with. However, for people who are obese or just starting out, it is very possible to gain muscle in a caloric deficit. I'm not talking about someone wanting to cut from 15 to 10% body fat. I'm talking about someone at 20%+ (which is a surprisingly large amount of the population) looking to lose weight.

This is particularly true of "newby gains". If you're doing things properly as a newb, gaining muscle while cutting fat is no problem. It's only when you get to the sub 15% body fat that what you're saying really becomes true.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by heep223

Tl;dr entire thread: eat well, eat less, and exercise.

Jokes aside - I find the debate and information on squats to be very interesting. Incorporating squats and deadlift into my strength routine has really strengthened my back and hips, improved my posture, increased flexibility and reduced back pain. People tend to have underdeveloped back and hips (myself being a prime example) and these are great exercises to strengthen them if you do them correctly while also hitting lots of other muscles. That's why they've become so popular. There are obviously also other good exercises but these are the most efficient.

Lastly I'd just add that I'm one of those people who have always had problems with squats because my hips are hella tight from years of hockey growing up and subsequently sitting at a desk for 8 years. Even when I was in great shape as a 17 year old I used to do squats in cowboy boots. Using a shoe that has a stable and elevated heel has really helped me in terms of getting into a deep squat with decent form.

I'm not attempting to call you out specifically, but a lot of people I've worked out who have limited range of motion due to "tight hips", just aren't doing the squat properly.

If you treat it like a leg press (legs underneath your shoulders and knees bent in front of you), you will experience limited range of motion. If you actually engage your hips, it will increase your range exponentially. I dealt with the same issues of not being able to "break parallel". I got proper instruction and read Mark Rippetoe's books and it changed my ability to get into proper position dramatically.

And yes, all the leg injuries I've ever had have been from running and not lifting.

[slots881]

Running is one of the highest impact cardio exercises you can do. Depending on your running style you can cause an impact up to 2.5 times your body weight. And thst impact is on one leg at a time. Obviously, it's one of the best ways to raise your heart rate, but learning proper technique is usually overlooked.

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

^^^^ The entire squat debate is always interesting to me. While I understand that it has the potential to cause problems, I can say with confidence that nothing has caused me more nagging pains and ongoing issues than regular jogging/running, and not heavy compound movements like squats or dead-lifts.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by blankall

I'm not attempting to call you out specifically, but a lot of people I've worked out who have limited range of motion due to "tight hips", just aren't doing the squat properly.

If you treat it like a leg press (legs underneath your shoulders and knees bent in front of you), you will experience limited range of motion. If you actually engage your hips, it will increase your range exponentially. I dealt with the same issues of not being able to "break parallel". I got proper instruction and read Mark Rippetoe's books and it changed my ability to get into proper position dramatically.

Yeah I hear you, and that's fine.

However I have read the books including Rippetoe and have studied form extensively. I have also seen about 5 different trainers and kinesiologists over the years who have assessed me and my squat form. It has always really bugged me that I could never squat like my buddies could - every other exercise I was fine.

The general consensus is that my hips were so tight (and my back was weak) and combined with my flat feet it made it really difficult to maintain my lumbar angle without falling backwards. I couldn't even sit in a squat without falling backwards or putting my weight on my toes.

After about 18 months of doing a hip flexibility program combined with putting an arch on my foot with good shoes, I'm finally breaking through. feelsgoodman.gif. Also - I stopped going for longer runs altogether (ie. 8km+). Made everything worse.

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by blankall

I disagree.

I think it's true for people who've hit their wall or people who are already lean to begin with. However, for people who are obese or just starting out, it is very possible to gain muscle in a caloric deficit. I'm not talking about someone wanting to cut from 15 to 10% body fat. I'm talking about someone at 20%+ (which is a surprisingly large amount of the population) looking to lose weight.

This is particularly true of "newby gains". If you're doing things properly as a newb, gaining muscle while cutting fat is no problem. It's only when you get to the sub 15% body fat that what you're saying really becomes true.

Well, I had thought about mentioning the notion of new gym goers and obese people being able to see muscle increase at the same time as fat loss, but are we sure that an increase in strength always equates to an actual increase in muscle mass? For obese people, an increase in strength may simply be a benefit of starting to regularly exercise muscles that had been in a state of atrophy for years. I'll bet very obese people are carrying around a hell of a lot of muscle and have the potential to be very strong.

Also, the thing to take into consideration is always lean body weight and the ratio of fat to muscle. If an individual loses 20lbs of weight- say 15lbs from fat and only 5lbs from muscle, you could say they have had an increase in muscle from a muscle to fat ratio.

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by blankall

2 litres of celery juice a day? That sounds awful, but yes if you eat that instead of regular food, you'll probably lose weight. Celery and lettuce have zero nutritional value and should be consumed primarily for fibre purposes, which you are destroying by blending them.

If you were just not juicing and eating the vegetables raw, you'd be replacing entire meals with bags of celery.

If you're capable of sticking to an awful sounding diet like this, why wouldn't you just do a healthy one that has the potential to help you gain muscle while losing weight. It sounds to me like your binging and starving. Eating nothing but celery for long periods of time and then gorging on a burger and fries. IMO you'd be better off making subtle changes to your diet. For example, eating the burger, but getting a side greens with a vinigrette and holding the mayo/cheese.

No not 2 litres of celery juice a day. At most 400ml. That's why you include multiple things at once.

No it's not a diet, specifically stated don't diet. It's not a food source, it simply cleans out the intestinal tract and rebalances the enzymes and flora. There's billions of bacteria in the intestines and if you have a gut it's likely this bacterial culture is making you less healthy.

Don't have to change anything in your diet if you don't want, it'll still do it's job that's why it's so good. If you keep eating the foods causing the issues it'll just take a little longer, including probiotics in the diet will minimize the buildup of unhealthy bacteria even if you don't eat perfectly healthy. It took me to much lower bodyfat and I never dieted, burgers are my weak spot and I probably eat 2 a week. The results are pretty awesome thus why I try to convince people how efficacious it actually is.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by AcGold

No not 2 litres of celery juice a day. At most 400ml. That's why you include multiple things at once.

No it's not a diet, specifically stated don't diet. It's not a food source, it simply cleans out the intestinal tract and rebalances the enzymes and flora. There's billions of bacteria in the intestines and if you have a gut it's likely this bacterial culture is making you less healthy.

Don't have to change anything in your diet if you don't want, it'll still do it's job that's why it's so good. If you keep eating the foods causing the issues it'll just take a little longer, including probiotics in the diet will minimize the buildup of unhealthy bacteria even if you don't eat perfectly healthy.

So it's a cleanse?

That also not based in science. What you're talking about will actually clean out your intestines, in the sense that it will mechanically move the last two days of build out. However, it's a myth that people have years of old stuff in their intestines. Failing some kind of intestinal failure, like a blockage, all you are doing is speeding up the natural process of moving matter through the intestine. Once you stop consuming so much fibre, you'll go back to regular and healthy levels of intestinal contents.

There's no "healthy bacteria" in lettuce, apples and celery.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

Well, I had thought about mentioning the notion of new gym goers and obese people being able to see muscle increase at the same time as fat loss, but are we sure that an increase in strength always equates to an actual increase in muscle mass? For obese people, an increase in strength may simply be a benefit of starting to regularly exercise muscles that had been in a state of atrophy for years. I'll bet very obese people are carrying around a hell of a lot of muscle and have the potential to be very strong.

Also, the thing to take into consideration is always lean body weight and the ratio of fat to muscle. If an individual loses 20lbs of weight- say 15lbs from fat and only 5lbs from muscle, you could say they have had an increase in muscle from a muscle to fat ratio.

There's no reason for the average person, who is just starting to work out, to lose 5 lbs in muscle mass. That's the kind of thing you'd see in people who are on crash diets or people getting to sub 10% body fat.

As far as newbie gains, I'm not talking about just strength gains. I've worked out with lots of people who were unconditioned, and you can literally see the muscles grow. Biceps, an easily measurable muscle, will grow dramatically while the waist tightens and shrinks.

I get what you are saying, as for me, I need a bulk to grow muscle mass. I typicall will put on 15-20lbs and gain 5-7lbs of muscle during a bulk. I've been lifting weights for almost 20 years and I am relatively lean to begin with though. So for me to actually gain significant muscle mass takes about a 1-2 year process of 3-4 month calorie deficit followed by a slow bulk followed by a slow cut.

[AcGold]

You are correct, the lettuce doesn't contain the bacterial culture. It contains the enzymes that drastically aid in maintaining a healthy gut.

The bacteria you want is in such things as saukraut, kimchi, miso, fermented vegetables. Probiotics. You can just buy them in pills but fermented foods are where the bacteria you want comes from.

It's not really a cleanse, it's more of a chemical balance. The lemons and limes help to alkalize the blood properly and the entire endocrine system starts to come back into proper functioning.

How much the weight loss is attributable to an intestinal "cleanse" or an overall metabolic improvement I don't know but it worked and that's all I can say.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by AcGold

No not 2 litres of celery juice a day. At most 400ml. That's why you include multiple things at once.

No it's not a diet, specifically stated don't diet. It's not a food source, it simply cleans out the intestinal tract and rebalances the enzymes and flora. There's billions of bacteria in the intestines and if you have a gut it's likely this bacterial culture is making you less healthy.

Don't have to change anything in your diet if you don't want, it'll still do it's job that's why it's so good. If you keep eating the foods causing the issues it'll just take a little longer, including probiotics in the diet will minimize the buildup of unhealthy bacteria even if you don't eat perfectly healthy. It took me to much lower bodyfat and I never dieted, burgers are my weak spot and I probably eat 2 a week. The results are pretty awesome thus why I try to convince people how efficacious it actually is.

None of this sounds like it has any basis in science whatsoever.

Your body cleans itself out, that's why you have organs.

[V]

All I know is that after 11 weeks of working out, and 8 weeks of dieting, I can lift waaay more in all of my exercises, and I've lost about 15 pounds. I can't imagine I've lost much in the way of muscle mass, since I'm lifting weights I couldn't dream of lifting 11 weeks ago.