Alberta Politics Thread

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Not sure where you're looking but now Canada is 4th highest in personal income, short of Sweden and Denmark and one other. Corporately we are middle of the road.

How Canada ranks in income tax:

Average income tax at average wage

*Single income, no children: 27th highest. Behind the UK, U.S., and Australia

*Married couple, two children: 27th highest. Again, behind the UK, U.S. and Australia

List of countries by tax revenue as percentage of GDP

* Canada - 38th

Sales Tax

*I can't be arsed to count down Canada's rank in sales tax, but by eyeballing it I'd say somewhere in the 70s.

[OMG!WTF!]

It looks like the OECD charts are all 2014 which likely means 2013 data. The straight income tax charts still represent us as middle of the road too. It will be interesting to what the latest changes do especially in terms of % of GDP.

[Resolute 14]

I know you are always the smartest guy in the room Cliff, but did you really just use a table from 2014 as if it was relevant to today, despite knowing that the tax regime has changed considerably at both the provincial and federal levels?

That doesn't even factor in that, in context, most of the discussion has revolved around the highest marginal rate rather than the average rate for an average family - though the post you replied to didn't make it clear one way or another what the comparison actually was.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I know you are always the smartest guy in the room Cliff, but did you really just use a table from 2014 as if it was relevant to today, despite knowing that the tax regime has changed considerably at both the provincial and federal levels?

That doesn't even factor in that, in context, most of the discussion has revolved around the highest marginal rate rather than the average rate for an average family - though the post you replied to didn't make it clear one way or another what the comparison actually was.

Do your own legwork then. Let's see your stats. At least I'm trying to bring some empiricism to the table.

[Resolute 14]

I'm not the one making claims, so go after them. But no, you're not simply bringing "some empiricism to the table" when you make comparisons you know to be misleading and disingenuous.

[Enoch Root]

do those numbers include provincial taxes? Hard to compare the tax rates in various countries if you don't include secondary jurisdictions.

And yeah, this years's rates would be a tad more pertinent.

[Slava]

LOL, Craig Chandler is on the board of the directors for the PC's now, in case people thought that they might be moving towards the center or gaining hope of being elected!

[Resolute 14]

If the NDP can get elected, then no handicap can prevent a party from gaining power.

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by Slava

LOL, Craig Chandler is on the board of the directors for the PC's now, in case people thought that they might be moving towards the center or gaining hope of being elected!

PC's gotta be the favorite to win the next election.

NDP building hate every day and the wild rose are still seen as crazy's by many.

[Zarley]

All that is required to solve Alberta's fiscal woes is to bring program spending under control. Nothing more.

Here are some numbers (from RBC):

Current AB deficit: -$6,315,000,000
Current AB program spending per capita: $11,596

Savings from bringing spending in line with BC (24% lower than AB): 9,425,339,000
Savings from bringing spending in line with Ontario (32% lower than AB): 11,880,291,500
Savings from bringing spending in line with Quebec (44% lower than AB): 14,914,361,000

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Zarley

All that is required to solve Alberta's fiscal woes is to bring program spending under control. Nothing more.

Here are some numbers (from RBC):

Current AB deficit: -$6,315,000,000
Current AB program spending per capita: $11,596

Savings from bringing spending in line with BC (24% lower than AB): 9,425,339,000
Savings from bringing spending in line with Ontario (32% lower than AB): 11,880,291,500
Savings from bringing spending in line with Quebec (44% lower than AB): 14,914,361,000

From the report...
*Public accounts basis. Numbers are based on reports from individual governments and, due to accounting and/or reporting differences, are not strictly comparable between provinces.

I'd be really surprised if Alberta spent 44% more per capita than Quebec...

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

From the report...
*Public accounts basis. Numbers are based on reports from individual governments and, due to accounting and/or reporting differences, are not strictly comparable between provinces.

I'd be really surprised if Alberta spent 44% more per capita than Quebec...

Here's the most recent adjusted numbers I can find, from 2010. At that point Alberta was spending 12% more than Quebec per capita and in the meantime Quebec has reduced expenditures while we have been spending more.

So while accounting difference may result in slight variation between provinces, there's really no question that we are spending much more than Quebec on a per capita basis.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Zarley

Here's the most recent adjusted numbers I can find, from 2010. At that point Alberta was spending 12% more than Quebec per capita and in the meantime Quebec has reduced expenditures while we have been spending more.

So while accounting difference may result in slight variation between provinces, there's really no question that we are spending much more than Quebec on a per capita basis.

And what are we getting for that money? Do we have newer and more advanced facilities? Better service?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

If the NDP can get elected, then no handicap can prevent a party from gaining power.

Originally Posted by Kavvy

PC's gotta be the favorite to win the next election.

NDP building hate every day and the wild rose are still seen as crazy's by many.

I do tend to agree, but seriously that guy is so divisive that you have to wonder about how that affects things as far as a rebuild or recovery. I even wonder about some moderates like Sandra Janssen and whether she would put up with his comments.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Locke

And what are we getting for that money? Do we have newer and more advanced facilities? Better service?

IIRC our wait times and services ranked in the bottom half of the provinces. But I also believe that the numbers I saw were a few years back.

I think we were really low rated when it came to things like cataracts, radiation and bypass surgeries.

[heep223]

Does anyone have recent approval numbers for provincial parties?

[Fuzz]

I'd guess they are all at around 5%. Prime time for someone new to come in!

/sideways glance at Alberta party.....come on guys, get it together!

[CaptainCrunch]

last one I saw was in February

http://calgaryherald.com/news/politi...ing-falls-poll

A Mainstreet Research/Postmedia poll of more than 3,000 Albertans this week shows the NDP have just 27 per cent popular support among decided voters — trailing the Wildrose at 33 per cent and the PCs at 31 per cent.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by heep223

Does anyone have recent approval numbers for provincial parties?

The last poll I am aware of was by Mainstreet in February.

It had WRP at 33%, the PCs at 31% and the NDP at 27%. ALP and AP at 5% each.

Edit: damn you, CC!

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I'm not the one making claims, so go after them. But no, you're not simply bringing "some empiricism to the table" when you make comparisons you know to be misleading and disingenuous.

I was responding to this post:

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Not sure where you're looking but now Canada is 4th highest in personal income, short of Sweden and Denmark and one other. Corporately we are middle of the road.

I don't know why it's so tough for people to follow threads of conversation in these forums. especially when the comment being responded to is quoted directly.

It's not disingenuous to post the most up-to-date available international stats. What's disingenuous is pretending the recent tax increases have skyrocketed Canada and Alberta into the upper ranks of tax burdens in the civilized world. Anyone who has some inkling of the world outside Alberta knows that's simply ridiculous.