Alberta Politics Thread

[RubberDuck]

Notley blames rising power transmission costs on PCs, says former government overbuilt grid

http://calgaryherald.com/news/politi...overbuilt-grid

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by RubberDuck

Notley blames rising power transmission costs on PCs, says former government overbuilt grid

http://calgaryherald.com/news/politi...overbuilt-grid

Yup, absolutely nothing to do with paying to get out of contracts and new taxation.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

Yup, absolutely nothing to do with paying to get out of contracts and new taxation.

She has a pretty low opinion on how smart Alberta voters are.

[calgarygeologist]

There is a supposed to be a press conference later today held by the PC party of Alberta with some sort of "big" announcement. I'm thinking they are probably announcing a new party leader. Less likely would be an announcement that they joining forces with the Wildrose Party.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

She has a pretty low opinion on how smart Alberta voters are.

Why wouldn't she, I have a low opinion on how smart Alberta voters are. Over 40% of voters voted for the NDP!

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

There is a supposed to be a press conference later today held by the PC party of Alberta with some sort of "big" announcement. I'm thinking they are probably announcing a new party leader. Less likely would be an announcement that they joining forces with the Wildrose Party.

Can there be a merger of the parties without there being votes from the members first?

Technically, yes, it can be top down.

Practically however, would it not be suicide as it would no different from the Prentice/Smith merger?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Can there be a merger of the parties without there being votes from the members first?

Technically, yes, it can be top down.

Practically however, would it not be suicide as it would no different from the Prentice/Smith merger?

I think its a different political environment back then, then it is now, but it has to be handled in a way better manner. I also think its easier right now to do a unit the right thing since neither party is in power, and this is about toppling a incompetent government in the next election.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Why wouldn't she, I have a low opinion on how smart Alberta voters are. Over 40% of voters voted for the NDP!

And historically even more voters voted for a party that could only balance the budget with enormous and unprecedented energy royalties rolling into government coffers year after year.

Just wait until a government makes a genuine effort to balance the provincial budget without relying on energy royalties. After every independent outside analyst recommends a sales tax as an obvious measure (as they have every other time the issue has been studied), we'll see just how dumb Alberta voters really are.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by RubberDuck

Notley blames rising power transmission costs on PCs, says former government overbuilt grid

http://calgaryherald.com/news/politi...overbuilt-grid

The guy who is essentially responsible (head of operations) for building the grid lives 2 doors down from me. I hope he is not going to get stuck holding the bag, so that someone "takes responsibility".

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

And historically even more voters voted for a party that could only balance the budget with enormous and unprecedented energy royalties rolling into government coffers year after year.

Just wait until a government makes a genuine effort to balance the provincial budget without relying on energy royalties. After every independent outside analyst recommends a sales tax as an obvious measure (as they have every other time the issue has been studied), we'll see just how dumb Alberta voters really are.

Most of the scholars and analysts calling for a pst also call for reductions in income tax rates and exemptions and bundle the whole thing as an enhancement of the Alberta advantage. Now that we have raised income tax and added a sales tax we don't get to keep (carbon tax), we've totally lost the plot on that whole plan.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

And historically even more voters voted for a party that could only balance the budget with enormous and unprecedented energy royalties rolling into government coffers year after year.

Just wait until a government makes a genuine effort to balance the provincial budget without relying on energy royalties. After every independent outside analyst recommends a sales tax as an obvious measure (as they have every other time the issue has been studied), we'll see just how dumb Alberta voters really are.

I'm going to bang this drum a little bit more.

As of right now our top marginal tax rate in Alberta is 48.5% and these 'experts' feel that levying a sales tax on top of that is the most obvious measure, but the most obvious measure isnt necessarily the right measure.

We need to take a very long, hard look at our spending and the value we receive for our Government dollars.

We're paying some of the highest taxes not only in this country but in the Western World, in conjunction with Oil royalties and the only solution the independent analysts and experts can come up with is 'add another tax?'

That is vapid and lazy.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Locke

I'm going to bang this drum a little bit more.

As of right now our top marginal tax rate in Alberta is 48.5% and these 'experts' feel that levying a sales tax on top of that is the most obvious measure, but the most obvious measure isnt necessarily the right measure.

We need to take a very long, hard look at our spending and the value we receive for our Government dollars.

We're paying some of the highest taxes not only in this country but in the Western World, in conjunction with Oil royalties and the only solution the independent analysts and experts can come up with is 'add another tax?'

That is vapid and lazy.

We already have a sales tax rolling in.

You can't tax your way out of trouble, you have to look at your fundamental spending issues and work with that first.

If you come out to the people of this province and state, we're going to keep running a operational day to day deficit and spend your money like we're drunkards so give us more, your going to get a pretty extreme voter backlash in the next election.

[Leeman4Gilmour]

Originally Posted by RubberDuck

Notley blames rising power transmission costs on PCs, says former government overbuilt grid

http://calgaryherald.com/news/politi...overbuilt-grid

I find the irony in the NDP complaining about a former government "over building" infrastructure very amusing.

I've dealt with AESO and they are pretty comprehensive in their evaluations for new projects. As with anything regulated, the process to get something going is long and arduous but, at the same time, it's well laid out and defined. If the system is over built now, it won't be for long. And, being ahead of the game is a refreshing change from catching up on needed infrastructure.

[CliffFletcher]

And yet Redford's PCs got elected on a promise to build a hundred new schools. Don't underlook how powerful a contingent soccer moms are in a province as young as Alberta. Anyone who thinks the provincial government can balance its budget by just snipping a bit of waste here and there is kidding themselves.

I guess I'd ask what's so special about Alberta that people think we can fund public health care, education, etc. to the level Albertans expect (which is the best in the world) without a tax mechanism that virtually ever other country/state/province in the developed world uses to bring in sustainable revenue.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

And yet Redford's PCs got elected on a promise to build a hundred new schools. Don't underlook how powerful a contingent soccer moms are in a province as young as Alberta. Anyone who thinks the provincial government can balance its budget by just snipping a bit of waste here and there is kidding themselves.

I guess I'd ask what's so special about Alberta that people think we can fund public health care, education, etc. to the level Albertans expect (which is the best in the world) without a tax mechanism that virtually ever other country/state/province in the developed world uses to bring in sustainable revenue.

Alberta isn't special at all. We in Alberta/Canada/the developed world expect far too much from government to be fiscally solvent over multiple generations. We're also way too juvenile as an electorate to have an adult conversation about this too so our politicians just promise more goodies or threaten Armageddon if any services need to be cut back.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Locke

We're paying some of the highest taxes not only in this country but in the Western World, in conjunction with Oil royalties and the only solution the independent analysts and experts can come up with is 'add another tax?'

Do you have any data on that? Canada is middle of the road in the OECD on overall taxation, and Alberta still has the lowest tax regime in Canada.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

You can't tax your way out of trouble, you have to look at your fundamental spending issues and work with that first.

If you come out to the people of this province and state, we're going to keep running a operational day to day deficit and spend your money like we're drunkards so give us more, your going to get a pretty extreme voter backlash in the next election.

You balance budgets by aligning spending with revenues. Where, exactly, that alignment rests is a matter settled by our elected representatives. Nobody wants to pay high taxes, but everyone wants the best public services. They want schools in every new neighbourhood, staffed with well-paid teachers. They want hospitals within an hour drive equipped with the most up-to-date equipment and qualified medical professionals. They want clean public parks and robust road infrastructure.

And for a while, we had it all in Alberta because energy royalties masked the enormous gap between what we as citizens were willing to pay and the services we actually received. But the party is over. We're going to have to bring those two numbers into alignment. Of course we'll have to cut spending. But we'll also have to raise taxes. And if we persist in supporting parties that tell us we can reach a sustainable public finance model doing only one of those things, Albertans will still be children who were spoiled for too long by a fantasy-land economic model.

[Kavvy]

I hear a lot of "over-spending" but no one seems to want to put the effort in to tabulate the spending wastage's.

$500,000 here or there on an special envoy bureaucrat is not a good thing, but it isn't breaking our budget. For all these complaints, I would love to see a spreadsheet tabulating all of these wastage's (big and small) and finally see some proof behind the argument we are not getting value for our taxes. I don't understand if it is so obvious to everyone that we are wasting so much tax dollars why this is so hard to do.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Do you have any data on that? Canada is middle of the road in the OECD on overall taxation, and Alberta still has the lowest tax regime in Canada.

Not sure where you're looking but now Canada is 4th highest in personal income, short of Sweden and Denmark and one other. Corporately we are middle of the road.

We're going to have to bring those two numbers into alignment. Of course we'll have to cut spending. But we'll also have to raise taxes. And if we persist in supporting parties that tell us we can reach a sustainable public finance model doing only one of those things, Albertans will still be children who were spoiled for too long by a fantasy-land economic model.

There is a much different tax rate if your goal is to optimize the economy than if it is simply to generate more revenue for the government...meaning there is a time to raise taxes and a time to not raise them. If you're suggesting now is a good time to add more taxes you're just as lost as the dummies who spent us into this problem in the first place.

I'd also just like to point out that there is no sub sovereign jurisdiction on the planet more in debt than Ontario with its healthy 8% sales tax. That and a robust economy makes me think maybe spending is more the issue.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Kavvy

I hear a lot of "over-spending" but no one seems to want to put the effort in to tabulate the spending wastage's.

$500,000 here or there on an special envoy bureaucrat is not a good thing, but it isn't breaking our budget. For all these complaints, I would love to see a spreadsheet tabulating all of these wastage's (big and small) and finally see some proof behind the argument we are not getting value for our taxes. I don't understand if it is so obvious to everyone that we are wasting so much tax dollars why this is so hard to do.

Thats not the part thats hard to do. Doing something about it is hard to do.

A good part of that 'wastage' is Collectively Bargained for and straight-up guaranteed. Going about the process of taking some of that away is hard to do.

[CliffFletcher]

nm