More to the point our absolute support of Israel, like our absolute support of Saudi Arabia, is harmful to us, it makes this issue harder to solve, therefore if Israel wants our support it should come with strings, if Israel wishes to continue to use its overwhelming military superiority to do what ever crappy thing it wants to the Palestinians regardless of the effect that has on the Arab world as a whole, that's fine but we should not be seen as their ally, ditto Saudi, you want our planes our money our support then all that backing of the salafists ends immediately.
Israel has the near-absolute support of the U.S. It's relations with the EU, Canada, and other Western countries are lukewarm. And Israel doesn't even need U.S. military backing to protect itself. They mostly share intelligence about common enemies. In fact, it's probably the U.S.'s influence with Israel that prevents Israel from doing something reckless about Iran.
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Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Don't make up stuff. What Israel claims about human rights and what is reality is far off. Israel disgusts me as do a lot of Middle Eastern countries but especially Israel since they claim to be democratic. Watch the following video and tell me your views on Israel doesn't change even a little bit.
Calling them the N word telling them to go back to Africa. Any Jewish person is allowed and welcomed in Israel unless you're black of course. You'll get people telling you to go back home and they'll even refuse to rent you a house to live in if you're black and they have equal rights? Give your head a shake. Israel is not something any country in the Middle East should look up to. They're better in a lot of ways and worse in others.
This is the same as in Canada? Don't compare Canada to Israel. Canada is one hundred times the country Israel is.
1) After this video surfaced much much larger anti-racism protests arose.
2) These are illegal migrants. The protests against illegal migrants across Europe and the USA are much larger and more violent. There are about 60-100k illegal migrants in Israel. Per capita that's more than any European country.
3) The weren't calling them the n word. That's English. These people speak Hebrew.
4) What the F does this have to do with Muslims killing Christians in Pakistan?
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Why does a thread discussing a bomb attack in pakistan have to devolve into another pissing match with/against Israel?
Because our support of Israel and its domestic policies affect our relationship with the Arab/Muslim world.
It's not the only thing but it's still important.
Because our support of Israel and its domestic policies affect our relationship with the Arab/Muslim world.
It's not the only thing but it's still important.
It is but it's not really relevent to a terrorist attack in Pakistan (not in the middle east). Besides every time it is brought up it derails the thread with one side saying "ISREAL IS THE BEST" and the other saying "ISREAL IS EVIL".
The pakistani PM is trying to do away with the blasphemy laws and they are used to punish those you disagree with or to settle a grudge. It doesn't take much for someone to accuse a Catholic in Pakistan of blasphemy and they are guilty before proven innocent. A lawyer was just killed for just defending a Catholic woman in a blasphemy case. Because of this the Pakistani PM has been labled as too friendly to the west. Rediculous. There is such a lack of proper education in Peshawar it is stunning. Not wanting your innocent citizens killed does not equal being too influenced by the west.
My father in law was born in Rahulpindi and grew up in Peshawar. There were 10 of them and he was the only one who was able to go to school.
It is but it's not really relevent to a terrorist attack in Pakistan (not in the middle east). Besides every time it is brought up it derails the thread with one side saying "ISREAL IS THE BEST" and the other saying "ISREAL IS EVIL".
The pakistani PM is trying to do away with the blasphemy laws and they are used to punish those you disagree with or to settle a grudge. It doesn't take much for someone to accuse a Catholic in Pakistan of blasphemy and they are guilty before proven innocent. A lawyer was just killed for just defending a Catholic woman in a blasphemy case. Because of this the Pakistani PM has been labled as too friendly to the west. Rediculous. There is such a lack of proper education in Peshawar it is stunning. Not wanting your innocent citizens killed does not equal being too influenced by the west.
My father in law was born in Rahulpindi and grew up in Peshawar. There were 10 of them and he was the only one who was able to go to school.
You'd get no disagreement from me on any of this, save that we can only affect what we can affect, we in the west have no ability to change the behaviour of Mahdrasses in Pakistan directly but we can pull our support for Saudi Arabia, we will never stop Arabs thinking that 'the Jews' stole Palestine but if we demand Israel do more to solve the issues, or at least stop making them worse, of the West Bank and Gaza it will go someway to finding a solution.
You'd get no disagreement from me on any of this, save that we can only affect what we can affect, we in the west have no ability to change the behaviour of Mahdrasses in Pakistan directly but we can pull our support for Saudi Arabia, we will never stop Arabs thinking that 'the Jews' stole Palestine but if we demand Israel do more to solve the issues, or at least stop making them worse, of the West Bank and Gaza it will go someway to finding a solution.
Well said sir. Pakistans problems stem from the top down. The amount of corruption is staggering and political parties behave like the mob. It only costs a couple hunder bucks to have a political rival killed. They had a chance with Bhutto but she was assassinated. They need to drop the Islamic Republic.
The illegal settlements in Israel are not helping things. Either is the apartheid state currently in effect and the constant pushing of their boundries. We should be demanding Israel do more for sure.
The Saudis just love exporting their ideology to other countries and need to be stopped. They have the money and they clout to use Israel misdeeds to whip up anger against the west and people believe it because the west isn't taking Israel to task in public.
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The illegal settlements in Israel are not helping things. Either is the apartheid state currently in effect and the constant pushing of their boundries. We should be demanding Israel do more for sure.
We already established in this very thread that Israel was not an apartheid state, and calling them that is simply an attempt to vilify Israel, and justify terrorism.
Posting misinformation that some people may actually believe is part of the problem.
Well said sir. Pakistans problems stem from the top down. The amount of corruption is staggering and political parties behave like the mob. It only costs a couple hunder bucks to have a political rival killed. They had a chance with Bhutto but she was assassinated. They need to drop the Islamic Republic.
The illegal settlements in Israel are not helping things. Either is the apartheid state currently in effect and the constant pushing of their boundries. We should be demanding Israel do more for sure.
The Saudis just love exporting their ideology to other countries and need to be stopped. They have the money and they clout to use Israel misdeeds to whip up anger against the west and people believe it because the west isn't taking Israel to task in public.
Do you honestly think the Saudis would stop attempting to gain power in Pakistan if Israel didn't exist? Do you honestly think religious zealots would stop being religious zealots? Their attitudes towards women, homosexuals, minorities, etc, would all change?
The Saudis have favor in the west due to oil reserves and them being a counterbalance to the #####e fundamentalists in Iran. As long as they hold that favor they can do as they please in their spheres of influence.
Do you honestly think the Saudis would stop attempting to gain power in Pakistan if Israel didn't exist? Do you honestly think religious zealots would stop being religious zealots? Their attitudes towards women, homosexuals, minorities, etc, would all change?
The Saudis have favor in the west due to oil reserves and them being a counterbalance to the #####e fundamentalists in Iran. As long as they hold that favor they can do as they please in their spheres of influence.
Propaganda relies on having a story, which is why our invasion of Iraq was so disastrous, regardless of our intentions it was easy to portray us as crusaders attempting to crush Islam.
Israel's poor treatment of its occupied territories also gives the Osamas of this world a great story to recruit suicide bombers with.
Now you are right they ain't going to stop trying to recruit if Israel changes its treatment of the Gaza and West Bank but it will help, not fix but help.
Propaganda relies on having a story, which is why our invasion of Iraq was so disastrous, regardless of our intentions it was easy to portray us as crusaders attempting to crush Islam.
Israel's poor treatment of its occupied territories also gives the Osamas of this world a great story to recruit suicide bombers with.
Now you are right they ain't going to stop trying to recruit if Israel changes its treatment of the Gaza and West Bank but it will help, not fix but help.
Or they could then focus on one of the many many other reasons they have to attack the west. Many European nations have been strong critics of Israel, but that hasn't stopped them from feeling their rath.
Also we're talking about Pakistan here, and religious conflict has been going on there for decades. Although the western media is obsessed with Israel, Asian media doesn't give an f, and I doubt many of these attackers would be able to point Israel out on a map. The very founding of Pakistan was based on religious lines. To argue that Israel is motivating this is absurd.
You might have a point of we were talking about an attack in a western nation. To link Indian continent religious strife to the existence of Israel is bizarre.
Muslims have been attacking the West since Muhammad first started proselyting Islam. It's been tit-for tat since then and no side is completely innocent any more.
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"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
Israel's poor treatment of its occupied territories also gives the Osamas of this world a great story to recruit suicide bombers with.
You keep throwing things like this out as if it were truth. What do you think Palestinians standard of living would be had it denounced violence? Have you looked around at neighbors that have the same mindset?
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Originally Posted by afc wimbledon
Now you are right they ain't going to stop trying to recruit if Israel changes its treatment of the Gaza and West Bank but it will help, not fix but help.
Gaza is in the shape it is in because of Hamas, not Israel. You willfully mislead people. Leadership in the West Bank can't even negotiate, because extremists would kill them too.
I thought Israel was off-topic? Or os it only when someone says anything critical of Israel?
Gaza is in the shape its in because of Hamas LOL. I guess Hamas stole their land and killed their people. Illegally jailed them and then put up illegal settlement with the U.N even trying to step in but Israel is so above the law they just ignore them.
Yeah Israel is a country we should look up to
Israel is a hell hole and something needs to be done about them. I hope I'm alive for the time where there is justice against Israel and their horrific crimes.
Israel is a hell hole and something needs to be done about them. I hope I'm alive for the time where there is justice against Israel and their horrific crimes.
Out of curiosity, what other countries are you waiting for justice for? Is it just Israel?
Why are you talking to calgaryblood? Does he strike you as someone with a level head who's likely to engage in a reasoned, thoughtful conversation on this topic?
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Why are you talking to calgaryblood? Does he strike you as someone with a level head who's likely to engage in a reasoned, thoughtful conversation on this topic?
Mind you I tend to feel the same way about conversations with Nage!
