Federal Budget 2016: $29B Deficit

[Enoch Root]

the mental gymnastics required to be a good socialist are astounding

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Let me put it another way. I have about $25k in student loans that I could very easily skip town on because I have dual citizenship. AFAIK, student loans work on a variable interest rate. If that interest rate went up by 1% and I used that as a justification to skip town and not pay them back, I doubt people would be applauding my actions.

does he have some outstanding debts that you want him to clear up?

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

Another example of why ideologically motivated policy decisions rarely have a place in the real world. The past 12 months in Alberta and Canada have been pretty illuminating to that fact.



Out of curiosity Matty, how old are you and what is your profession if you are comfortable sharing?

Aren't most policy decisions based on ideology? One ideology is that lower taxes drive investment another is that people who earn more should pay more. It's only ideology if you don't agree with it

[indes]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Let me put it another way. I have about $25k in student loans that I could very easily skip town on because I have dual citizenship. AFAIK, student loans work on a variable interest rate. If that interest rate went up by 1% and I used that as a justification to skip town and not pay them back, I doubt people would be applauding my actions.

Not paying back a loan is the same as not paying for something you don't get?

You are so far gone from the realm of reality you're hurting your own argument.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Let me put it another way. I have about $25k in student loans that I could very easily skip town on because I have dual citizenship. AFAIK, student loans work on a variable interest rate. If that interest rate went up by 1% and I used that as a justification to skip town and not pay them back, I doubt people would be applauding my actions.

Oh, I get it, you're just jealous and spiteful because Murray Edwards has more money than you.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Let me put it another way. I have about $25k in student loans that I could very easily skip town on because I have dual citizenship. AFAIK, student loans work on a variable interest rate. If that interest rate went up by 1% and I used that as a justification to skip town and not pay them back, I doubt people would be applauding my actions.

tell you what...

you generate and pay taxes at a rate 100 (1,000?) times greater than what you're currently paying, and do so for the next 20 or 30 years, and we'll forego your student loans.

fair?

[indes]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Aren't most policy decisions based on ideology? One ideology is that lower taxes drive investment another is that people who earn more should pay more. It's only ideology if you don't agree with it

Ideology is a theory of how things will work. Most of the time ideologies ignore facts and don't account for variables such as human nature.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

the mental gymnastics required to be a good socialist are astounding

Actually it's very simple. Is it right or wrong to not pay for services you're using? It has noting to do with socialism.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful

Oh, I get it, you're just jealous and spiteful because Murray Edwards has more money than you.

Boy you sure got me.

[2Stonedbirds]

Originally Posted by rubecube

That's not what I said, but exploitation is the very essence of capitalism. People don't employ others out of the goodness of their hearts. They do it because they can exploit their labour for their own personal gain. That's just how the system works. I'm not making a moral argument for or against it.

Maybe that's where we are getting our wires crossed? You view it as exploitation, I view it as people taking a job and receiving what is deemed fair compensation in our area and no one had to hold a gun to their head to achieve that.

Absolutely it's how the system works, but that system is present and available for everyone to take advantage of. The issue I think some people have here is the govt of the day is pissing that advantage off into the wind because... Not sure why? They like watching investment roll out of the country? Cutting their nose off to spite their face is good times? I really don't know.

I'm not blaming him for anything. I haven't made any moral proclamation about the guy. I'm speaking strictly to what his actions entail, and I even posed it as a hypothetical. For all I know the guy probably pays privately for most of the services that we get publicly. Although it's hard to say he doesn't benefit from things such as emergency services.

Ok fair enough, I'm sorry that shouldn't have been directed at you but the sentiment here seems to be that he's doing what he's doing because he's a jerk. Absolutely 110% moving out of the country is for his best interests and no one else. Does that make him a bad guy? I don't know. Does it show him to be a free individual who's not beholden to the govt? Damn right. He wouldn't leave if he didn't have a reason or want to.

Of course he may benefit from emergency services ect but I'll bet he's contributed more to the high level of service we have grown accustomed to than the majority of people in this country. I'm not looking at tax percentages, in fact I honestly don't care what his bracket is, I'd rather the govt try and find that balance of generating sustainable tax revenue while at the same time not driving people out of the province of country with a tax policy that I'm lead to believe was drawn on a McDonald's napkin with a crayon.

I totally understand where you're coming from (I think) and to an extent I agree, but at the same time I'd rather work to keep investment in the province so we can still enjoy our high level of public services rather than drive them out with punitive measures. Individuals create jobs and wealth in this country, not the govt.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

Maybe that's where we are getting our wires crossed? You view it as exploitation, I view it as people taking a job and receiving what is deemed fair compensation in our area and no one had to hold a gun to their head to achieve that.

Absolutely it's how the system works, but that system is present and available for everyone to take advantage of. The issue I think some people have here is the govt of the day is pissing that advantage off into the wind because... Not sure why? They like watching investment roll out of the country? Cutting their nose off to spite their face is good times? I really don't know.



Ok fair enough, I'm sorry that shouldn't have been directed at you but the sentiment here seems to be that he's doing what he's doing because he's a jerk. Absolutely 110% moving out of the country is for his best interests and no one else. Does that make him a bad guy? I don't know. Does it show him to be a free individual who's not beholden to the govt? Damn right. He wouldn't leave if he didn't have a reason or want to.

Of course he may benefit from emergency services ect but I'll bet he's contributed more to the high level of service we have grown accustomed to than the majority of people in this country. I'm not looking at tax percentages, in fact I honestly don't care what his bracket is, I'd rather the govt try and find that balance of generating sustainable tax revenue while at the same time not driving people out of the province of country with a tax policy that I'm lead to believe was drawn on a McDonald's napkin with a crayon.

I totally understand where you're coming from (I think) and to an extent I agree, but at the same time I'd rather work to keep investment in the province so we can still enjoy our high level of public services rather than drive them out with punitive measures. Individuals create jobs and wealth in this country, not the govt.

Yeah, at the end of the day, I don't really give a damn what he does. It has essentially zero impact on me. I just think the accolades he's receiving for "sticking it to the NDP" are a little over the top. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Actually it's very simple. Is it right or wrong to not pay for services you're using? It has noting to do with socialism.

so you don't care how much he paid before, if he isn't paying right now and he rides a bus or something, he's offsides?

did you pay your fair share while you were young or while you were in university, or even now? No? what does that make you?

what about retirees that aren't paying their fair share anymore? the #######s!

ever travel? were you being a sponge on that system?

maybe you're not so good at this socialism thing

[2Stonedbirds]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Yeah, at the end of the day, I don't really give a damn what he does. It has essentially zero impact on me. I just think the accolades he's receiving for "sticking it to the NDP" are a little over the top. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

But it does effect you. We may not like the fact that he pays a slightly higher percentage of tax relative to the rest of us, but that percentage represents a much, much larger sum of tax dollars that pays for these public services you are talking about.

Him pulling out and taking his rubles with him absolutely effects everyone here.

It's not about him sticking it to the NDP, it's about the NDP being either so inexperienced, naive or simply holding too much credence in their ideology that they cannot see what results their actions have on this province.

And I just realized this turned into the Alberta politics thread. Bunch of self centered pricks we are.

[Cyclops]

It's kind of sad when we look at a company employing people as some sort of favor.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

so you don't care how much he paid before, if he isn't paying right now and he rides a bus or something, he's offsides?

did you pay your fair share while you were young or while you were in university, or even now? No? what does that make you?

what about retirees that aren't paying their fair share anymore? the #######s!

ever travel? were you being a sponge on that system?

maybe you're not so good at this socialism thing

Keep deflecting/moving the goalposts. We're not talking about a guy who's spending a week in Canada visiting the sites, or someone who lacks the ability to pay his taxes. Yes or no, do you believe it's morally acceptable to spend the majority of the year living in a country and taking advantages of their services when you're not paying to do so, despite being more than capable of doing so?

[2Stonedbirds]

Originally Posted by Cyclops

It's kind of sad when we look at a company employing people as some sort of favor.

What should it be? Please expand.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

But it does effect you. We may not like the fact that he pays a slightly higher percentage of tax relative to the rest of us, but that percentage represents a much, much larger sum of tax dollars that pays for these public services you are talking about.

Him pulling out and taking his rubles with him absolutely effects everyone here.

It's not about him sticking it to the NDP, it's about the NDP being either so inexperienced, naive or simply holding too much credence in their ideology that they cannot see what results their actions have on this province.

And I just realized this turned into the Alberta politics thread. Bunch of self centered pricks we are.

a) I live in BC, so it affects me way less than someone living in Alberta
b) I'm a single dude with no kids and no aspirations of having any

I'm a pretty self-contained unit. The only thing I really receive in the way of state services is health care and public transit. Where Murray Edwards lives has next zero effect on me personally.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

What should it be? Please expand.

I don't think he's saying it should be but it goes back to my point about capitalism being exploitative in essence. If you hire someone, you're not working in a relationship that's equally beneficial. Sure you're providing them with some benefits to work, for you but if it you weren't deriving more personal benefit than what you're expending then you wouldn't hire them. You can say it's based on value, but the value is also contingent on what makes you profitable.

[LanceUppercut]

Originally Posted by Cyclops

It's kind of sad when we look at a company employing people as some sort of favor.

[2Stonedbirds]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I don't think he's saying it should be but it goes back to my point about capitalism being exploitative in essence. If you hire someone, you're not working in a relationship that's equally beneficial. Sure you're providing them with some benefits to work, for you but if it you weren't deriving more personal benefit than what you're expending then you wouldn't hire them. You can say it's based on value, but the value is also contingent on what makes you profitable.

Absolutely. It's not a feel good time. Business needs good employees to be a good business. Employers need employees to do a job. People need work because it pays the bills. Again this argument keeps falling back to being equals, but I have yet to hear what is holding someone back from going from employee, to employer.

Edit: as an employee, there is nothing to stop me from chasing work elsewhere. I have that freedom. Ergo I do not take on the risk that private business does. But when that investment leaves the country it also leaves myself with less options. It's a double whammy.

I like the banter rube. I'll try to respond to your other post about your personal situation (that basically mirrors mine) but I gotta go put the tools on and get some stuff done in the house. Cheers with beers.