Federal Budget 2016: $29B Deficit

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by polak

The issue I have with it is that he made his fortune from Alberta resources. He didn't invent anything, or start some revolutionary new type of business. No, he took our oil out of the ground and sold it for tremendous profit. Sure his company employs thousands of people but all those jobs exist so that he can profit as much as possible from our resources.

Now that the government decided that the province no longer wants to basically be a tax haven, he's abandoning it to save his 1%. A 1% that means #### all to him or his quality of life.

Kinda ####ty. That's all.

Just curious... you get the 1% number from where?

[polak]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Just curious... you get the 1% from where?

I thought I saw someone mention that the tax rate in London is 1% higher than our new one.... but I can't find it now so maybe I'm losing it.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

A system that ignores human nature is a very poorly designed system.

Well there are nations all over the world with higher tax rates than ours that seem to get along just fine.

Ever give a homeless person any spare change? Volunteer your time for something you believe in? Those things are technically against human nature. Some people get personal benefit from helping others or being a part of something bigger. It's not a defect.

Edwards is saying FU to a province and nation that helped him build a huge fortune for what amounts to (relatively speaking) spare change.

[polak]

Tell you what, I'll take back everything I've said about Mr. Edwards if his wiki page is correct!

[/IMG]

[DiracSpike]

LOL I love all the NDP apologists freaking out about this.

Before the NDP tax/corporate reforms: "What are they gonna do, leave??"

After: "Wait, they left? How dare they!"

Equally applicable to people and businesses

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Not everyone bases their decisions purely on money. And a socialist system very much relies on that.

From a logical stand point, yes, the government raises taxes, people (who can) will move to where they don;t have to pay as much. A person can understand this logic while not finding it ethical.

Another example of why ideologically motivated policy decisions rarely have a place in the real world. The past 12 months in Alberta and Canada have been pretty illuminating to that fact.

Out of curiosity Matty, how old are you and what is your profession if you are comfortable sharing?

[Coach]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

Another example of why ideologically motivated policy decisions rarely have a place in the real world. The past 12 months in Alberta and Canada have been pretty illuminating to that fact.

Out of curiosity Matty, how old are you and what is your profession if you are comfortable sharing?

I'm 26 and work in investment banking with a degree in economics.

"rarely" is not the proper word. Countries that are by and large "socialist" consistently top the lists of which countries are the best places to live. And yes, Canada is socialist, relatively speaking.

[polak]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

LOL I love all the NDP apologists freaking out about this.

Before the NDP tax/corporate reforms: "What are they gonna do, leave??"

After: "Wait, they left? How dare they!"

Equally applicable to people and businesses

Everyone knew people would leave. Doesn't make it ethically okay for someone that made all of their money off of Alberta resources to bail for his equivalent of pocket change. That's the whole point. They're taking a little bit more of his excess. He'll feel no personal impact from it whatsoever.

Do you think Alberta should just never increase their tax?

Man the political ideology in this province is just ####ed. It's all about getting in, making your money and getting the #### out. #### everyone who tries to tell you otherwise. Every man for themselves.

It's going to be a dead province in a few decades time because of it. Congrats to those of you who were able to capitalize on it.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I'm 26 and work in investment banking with a degree in economics.

"rarely" is not the proper word. Countries that are by and large "socialist" consistently top the lists of which countries are the best places to live. And yes, Canada is socialist, relatively speaking.

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

Does your MD know about your socialist leanings?

(joking, kinda)

[peter12]

Yikes, being a socialist and an investment banker involves a lot of cognitive dissonance! You guys are like the actual problem, not part of it, but the problem!

Disclaimer: I work with and for rich people too.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

Does your MD know about your socialist leanings?

(joking, kinda)

Lol yes. But I tend to keep my opinion to myself at the office, which is why I end up venting about it a lot on here. A little more self-preserving than fighting about politics with my boss haha.

Originally Posted by peter12

Yikes, being a socialist and an investment banker involves a lot of cognitive dissonance! You guys are like the actual problem, not part of it, but the problem!

Disclaimer: I work with and for rich people too.

Hahaha It definitely does and it's a big reason why I am leaving the industry.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Well there are nations all over the world with higher tax rates than ours that seem to get along just fine.

Ever give a homeless person any spare change? Volunteer your time for something you believe in? Those things are technically against human nature. Some people get personal benefit from helping others or being a part of something bigger. It's not a defect.

Edwards is saying FU to a province and nation that helped him build a huge fortune for what amounts to (relatively speaking) spare change.

Those things are not the same thing as designing a system that governs all our actions. Jesus, man.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Those things are not the same thing as designing a system that governs all our actions. Jesus, man.

You're right, but as I said, there are plenty of nations that run far more socialist systems than ours and get along just fine or better.

At a certain point ideals have to take priority over just having more and more. Not everyone's ideals are aligned of course, but I think we could all agree that someone like Edwards definitely has a whole hell of a lot more than he could ever possibly need, and to take tax dollars away from the province and nation that helped him build his fortune for what amounts to something completely negligible to him but could have real impacts on the society that has helped him, is just plain crappy. Schools and hospitals can be built with the money he's pulled out of this country.

A common thought seems to be that these types of people are completely self-made. They are not, even the most self-made people are not done so on their own. Everyone who has ever worked for Edwards and anyone who has every purchased something from him has helped him build his wealth through their own work.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I'm 26 and work in investment banking with a degree in economics.

"rarely" is not the proper word. Countries that are by and large "socialist" consistently top the lists of which countries are the best places to live. And yes, Canada is socialist, relatively speaking.

Canada (which I wouldn't call socialist) was voted 13th this year. The top 10:

Denmark
Netherlands
New Zealand
Qatar
Switzerland
Luxembourg
Iceland
Australia
Norway
Sweden

It's more than a stretch to call that list 'by and large socialist'.

More to the point though, these lists consider things like crime rates, health care, and cleanliness. So your point misses the mark for relevance, as well as being very much a cross-section of the political and socio-economic spectrums.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by polak

Everyone knew people would leave. Doesn't make it ethically okay for someone that made all of their money off of Alberta resources to bail for his equivalent of pocket change. That's the whole point. They're taking a little bit more of his excess. He'll feel no personal impact from it whatsoever.

Do you think Alberta should just never increase their tax?

Man the political ideology in this province is just ####ed. It's all about getting in, making your money and getting the #### out. #### everyone who tries to tell you otherwise. Every man for themselves.

It's going to be a dead province in a few decades time because of it. Congrats to those of you who were able to capitalize on it.

I'm just confused by this dude. It's not like the guy came in under the cover of darkness and made his money and got out.

-He's paid taxes on all the money he's made to this point
-He grew a company from nothing to a corporation that has a 42B dollar market cap that employs thousands of people. Thats corporate tax plus a bunch of people paying income tax.
-Just because he's made his money here does that mean he's never ever allowed to leave for any reason? What right is it of yours to say he shouldnt move for x reason or paying x more in income tax shouldn't matter.
-CNRL is a corporation, its not his personal lemonade stand where all profits just roll tax free to Edwards.
-Alberta is inarguably a better place for having had him live here, if he wants to sip tea in London I'm not gonna begrudge him for it. He hasn't abandoned the Province in any meaningful sense anyway

[rubecube]

Will have a good chuckle at Edwards if Corbyn gets in in 2.5 years time.

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

Another example of why ideologically motivated policy decisions rarely have a place in the real world. The past 12 months in Alberta and Canada have been pretty illuminating to that fact.

Out of curiosity Matty, how old are you and what is your profession if you are comfortable sharing?

I think this is particularly rich given that you have presented your ideology as the "real world".

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by MattyC

You're right, but as I said, there are plenty of nations that run far more socialist systems than ours and get along just fine or better.

There's an important aspect that you're not considering here: relevancy.

We're talking about tax rates between provinces (i.e. within the same social, economic and cultural community).

It is much easier to relocate from one province to another, or one state to another, for tax or salary reasons, than it is to move to another country, where many things, including the language, change.

[rubecube]

So is Edwards actually going to be living in London? How much time is he going to spend there vs. in Canada? Because if he's still using Canadian public services and not paying taxes on him then IMO, he's a bigger sponge than someone who doesn't work and collects welfare cheques.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by MattyC

You're right, but as I said, there are plenty of nations that run far more socialist systems than ours and get along just fine or better.

At a certain point ideals have to take priority over just having more and more. Not everyone's ideals are aligned of course, but I think we could all agree that someone like Edwards definitely has a whole hell of a lot more than he could ever possibly need, and to take tax dollars away from the province and nation that helped him build his fortune for what amounts to something completely negligible to him but could have real impacts on the society that has helped him, is just plain crappy. Schools and hospitals can be built with the money he's pulled out of this country.

A common thought seems to be that these types of people are completely self-made. They are not, even the most self-made people are not done so on their own. Everyone who has ever worked for Edwards and anyone who has every purchased something from him has helped him build his wealth through their own work.

Which brings us back to the fact that a system designed without human nature in mind is a bad system. If the tax rate hadn't risen by approximately 20%, people wouldn't be leaving, and their (continued) taxes would still be there for said schools and such.

Wanting people to behave in a particular way is pointless. The key is to motivate them to behave in a particular way.