The fact that people will turn to far right extremism as a means to "solve" the problem is a direct result of the left and mainstream in the west refusing to acknowledge the problem at all.
For instance, Obama, Trudeau et all STILL refuse to use the word Islam in reference to terror attacks. They aren't fooling anybody.
60 minutes might start reporting on the issues surrounding the open border policies in Europe after one of their crews were assaulted in Sweden.
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It's nice to see the social media stuff intertwined with some of the news info as it shows a glimpse into how the city is reacting.
Looks like death toll hasn't increased in the last few hours. That's good.
It looks like ISIS press agency has declared responsibility.
It looks like they're going to try to reopen parts of the subway in a few hours. Also looks like the city is using social media to help individuals with cars to extract stranded citizens/open homes to help those in need.
I really liked the Paris Attack Thread because it was full of information about the event.
Then it turned to crap because people insisted on going totally OT and debating religious issues instead.
Can we keep those arguments out of this thread? There's a whole "Ongoing Terrorism/ISIS/al Qaeda Thread" right on the same page where you can debate religion all you want. Go there.
Bold suggestion: Maybe we could use this thread for relevant information related directly to the events that transpired in Belgium instead.
So you think this thread should be just about gathering information about the attacks? Surely we all have online media sources for that stuff. Google is your friend.
This is a discussion forum, not a news site. People come here to express their opinions. What kind of opinions do you expect to see expressed in this thread? That the attack was awful? Okay, that's a given - we all think it was awful. We also all have opinions about the context of the attacks. If we can't talk about that, may as well just shut down the thread.
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I have news about the news -- CBC News has spent at least the last 10 minutes on Rob Ford, and said they have two major stories to cover today. So that's annoying.
He said your point was idiotic. He didn't say you were an idiot.
OK so...
A religious state that wants to attain Sharia law (one world government ruled by Islamic state) attained by Jihad (holy wars) isn't an issue?
How can we not have a discussion about ideology when this sick fundamentally irrational worldview is causing global issues, sticking our heads in the sand and saying it's not an issue only exacerbates things.
Most people don't have a clue about what Islam is yet make arguments for it. It's an inherently sick philosophy that creates violence in the self righteous belief that Islam is the final religion that will rule the world and will do anything to get it including genocide. And that's not an issue for anyone...
A religious state that wants to attain Sharia law (one world government ruled by Islamic state) attained by Jihad (holy wars) isn't an issue?
How can we not have a discussion about ideology when this sick fundamentally irrational worldview is causing global issues, sticking our heads in the sand and saying it's not an issue only exacerbates things.
Most people don't have a clue about what Islam is yet make arguments with people. It's an inherently sick philosophy that creates violence in the self righteous belief that Islam is the final religion that will rule the world and will do anything to get itx including genocide. And that's not an issue for anyone...
Extreme irony alert....
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Most people don't have a clue about what Islam is yet make arguments for it. It's an inherently sick philosophy that creates violence in the self righteous belief that Islam is the final religion that will rule the world and will do anything to get it including genocide.
According to who, exactly? And if this is the case, why do Muslims in various countries (or within the same area for that matter) hold such wildly different beliefs about what their faith requires of them?
You're oversimplifying as much as, or more than, anyone you might think you're arguing against. But it's certainly a case study as to why Trump is a thing, or why there's a notable rise in far-right political sentiment in Europe right now.
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Originally Posted by CliffFletcher
So you think this thread should be just about gathering information about the attacks? Surely we all have online media sources for that stuff. Google is your friend.
I take his point - there's already a thread for much of this and people who want to know what's going on need to scroll through pages of tangential discussion to find it. But like I say, it's inevitable.
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Last edited by CorsiHockeyLeague; 03-22-2016 at 09:32 AM.
So you think this thread should be just about gathering information about the attacks? Surely we all have online media sources for that stuff. Google is your friend.
This is a discussion forum, not a news site. People come here to express their opinions. What kind of opinions do you expect to see expressed in this thread? That the attack was awful? Okay, that's a given - we all think it was awful. We also all have opinions about the context of the attacks. If we can't talk about that, may as well just shut down the thread.
I get his point though.
I believe he's hoping the ISIS, Islam stuff is discussed more heavily in the other thread vs mirroring of much of what is already there in here. If you already follow the other thread, I could see it being frustrating to reread the rhetoric from the other thread in here where it adds very little to this specific conversation.
I don't know if anyone caught this, but apparently there were 3 explosive devices. One was destroyed by the Bomb squad. The other two were part of the focal attacks. Luckily, that reduced casualties somewhat. I am also reading airport bomb was packed with nails as shrapnel. Terrifying stuff to imagine.
According to who, exactly? And if this is the case, why do Muslims in various countries (or within the same area for that matter) hold such wildly different beliefs about what their faith requires of them?
You're oversimplifying as much as, or more than, anyone you might think you're arguing against. But it's certainly a case study as to why Trump is a thing, or why there's a notable rise in far-right political sentiment in Europe right now.
I take his point - there's already a thread for much of this and people who want to know what's going on need to scroll through pages of tangential discussion to find it. But like I say, it's inevitable.
Oversimplified? How about actually reasoning and study instead of bias. Go read about Sharia law and Jihad for a few weeks. This is a psychological illness that drives these people.
I'm not saying all Muslims are bad but the core ideologies of Sharia law and Jihad create the world we live in where people are murdered in terrorist attacks.
At this point, I believe that the words "sharia law" and "jihad" have become so overused in the public lexicon that they must be banned, and new terms for these concepts must be invented to truly describe their impact on the Western consciousness, and polity.
It is kind of interesting Saudi Arabia and Trump were brought up in this thread: was just thinking about how Trump-ism was born of a war on facts by the US right, and Islamic extremism stems from the backwards-ass extremism promoted for so many years by the Saudis. Both of which are now way out of the originators' control.
It's not Islam, but extremism is a problem in Islamic culture for sure.
Yes, it's not Islam, it's Islamic extremists.
But Islam supports the extremists. Not all of course. And not most. But some. Some Islamic governments fund them. Others turn a blind eye. (Some) Muslims everywhere, cheer them.
And as long as extremists exist, and the greater Muslim community doesn't stop it, the greater the hatred and backlash towards all Muslims will be.
And it doesn't matter whether or not that reaction is 'wrong'. It is inevitable.
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Almost 10 years ago, I was lost in the lovely city of Brussels and came out of the wrong metro into Molenbeek, the neighborhood that appears to be at the center of Muslim immigration and fanaticism that generated the Paris attacks and likely also today's attacks.
At the time, I remember feeling awe and surprise because I came out onto a cultural street festival full of Muslims and there was a parade, food stalls, people dancing, kids playing in the street, festive demonstrations, music, etc.
From what I'm seeing now, it only makes me tremendously sad that such terror and hatred can come out of a place that I remember as being so vibrant and welcoming and transform it and the rest of the world in nearly irreparable ways.
Last edited by Hack&Lube; 03-22-2016 at 10:14 AM.
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Every time you blame the "Muslims", you make a terrorist happy. The point of terrorism is not to kill people, killing people is but a means. The end is to create fear, to destroy reason, to create a narrative of two irreconcilable forces opposing one another - a narrative that, once entrenched, will compel those they see as their own to have no choice but to side with them in their war or be destroyed.
You can be angry without letting anger tell you what to say and how to act. Otherwise you're just another terrorist who uses words instead of bombs.
And the exact opposite can also be stated:
Every time you do nothing, every time you talk peace or acceptance, you show them that you are weak.
Extremists believe the West is weak. And every time they attack, they prove it.
The problem here is that every response is wrong. Every response 'encourages' them.
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Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague
It's really not clear what you're saying here, and I hear a similar argument quite often. Basically, we need to avoid "confirming the narrative" of the extremists, because... I'm not sure. You say that we need to prevent the narrative from becoming "entrenched". What does this mean?
I think it's pretty clear what I'm saying, although it seems that yet again your legal training that emphasizes the nitpickery of specific words over the gestalt and context of sentences seems to have caused you difficulty.
The narrative that these terrorists want to create is Islam vs Everybody Else. When people start talking about the "Muslims" being the problem, oir "Islam" being the problem, they are helping the terrorists create that narrative. Once that interpretation of events becomes the norm, if you are of the Muslim faith, you will be forced to choose either the side of your brethren, or of those who want to deport/marginalize/kill you.
We already know what causes terrorism - alienated groups, humanity's love of violence, and the human failing of credulity. It's not Islam, it's not Machine-Gun Jesus, it's not militant tree-huggers, it's not even godless socialism in our precious bodily fluids. It's people letting their fear and anger drive them to simple solutions and finding someone to blame, and reducing discourse to the same level makes us no better.
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shouldn't you guys be in that other thread discussing this, was coming here looking for news on today's event.
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