[PGT] Flames dominate, but lose 2-1 to the Sharks in OT.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Its fine to like his game but right now he's putting up the offensive numbers of a 4th line player which is better than nothing but right now he's looking more like a Jordin Tootoo than a Milan Lucic.

He's also only in his first full NHL season. He's making good things happen, those things just aren't translating to goals quite yet.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I don't agree with that assessment at all. I like his game more often than not. He hasn't been invisible in 80% of the games I've watched so I guess we're watching different guys.

I suppose people see what they want to see. Warrener on 960 this morning was saying that Ferland has been in his words "garbage" a lot of the time this season and should be in the pressbox. I'm not saying I agree 100% but I don't see him on a nightly basis bringing it and he's got some of the worst hands on the team around the net. I actually don't think there's much that separates Ferland from Jooris in that they are good depth players but not difference makers. He's going to need to be a lot better next year to secure a permanent roster spot IMO.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Its fine to like his game but right now he's putting up the offensive numbers of a 4th line player which is better than nothing but right now he's looking more like a Jordin Tootoo than a Milan Lucic.

The numbers will come if he continues to play well IMO and continues to develop. He has the skill to set up and finish. Powerforwards often take a little longer to develop. He's looked good with Johnny and Monahan. He looks nothing like Tootoo, nor is he anywhere near Lucic. Next season I'd look for him to play as a 2nd line power forward and hope for some points to finally hit the board. If he develops he'll be a very valuable player for us as he'll add some size, strength and physicality to our top two lines.

People have no patience with young players these days. Look how long it is taking Colborne to get his game together and he's what, 3 years older than Ferland? I'm still more excited about Ferland's upside than I am about Poirier, Shinkaruk, Klimchuk, Agostino, etc. If he doesn't take a big step forward next year I'll be worried but I think his game is coming along just fine. Might not be coming along as fast as some people want but you can't fast forward development and confidence gains.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I suppose people see what they want to see. Warrener on 960 this morning was saying that Ferland has been in his words "garbage" a lot of the time this season and should be in the pressbox. I'm not saying I agree 100% but I don't see him on a nightly basis bringing it and he's got some of the worst hands on the team around the net. I actually don't think there's much that separates Ferland from Jooris in that they are good depth players but not difference makers. He's going to need to be a lot better next year to secure a permanent roster spot IMO.

I think Ferland needs to work on his shot accuracy.

He stickhandles well to get out of corners and make passes and has good success in making that first move to give himself some space to shoot. He also has a relatively quick release and good velocity from what I can see.

In all, he's thinking the right things offensively and has an instinct. In that respect, he's ahead of Jooris. I don't think Jooris has much offensive instinct or awareness; rather, he works hard to try and generate chances by brute force a la Bouma. Ideally, we don't need both of Bouma or Jooris.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by codynw

That's strange, because I think Ferland had another really good game last night.

Expectations have been lowered I guess.

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Ditto.

Been a harsh critic of Ferland this season but he played well last night. Maybe he doesn't have that agitating game some wished, the game Hathaway plays, but he was going hard to the net last night, being messy, creating chances. Thought he played well.

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Same.

I think some people expect Ferland to be something else for some reason. But even when he's not throwing highlight reel hits I love the little plays he makes. His decisions about when to dump it in, when to carry it in, when to pass, when to drive the net, etc. He makes a lot of smart decisions. He has the hands to play with skilled players but doesn't mind doing the dirty work. Even when he doesn't finish his checks his forecheck forces the opposition into making poor passes. Against PIT he had a shift where he forechecked and forced them to ice the puck, they couldn't get it past him.

Ferland isn't a flashy guy, he isn't a fancy guy. If you aren't watching him closely you won't see the little things he does. But IMO he's playing well and developing. I still think he has top two line power forward upside. He isn't an agitator, and he isn't just a grinder.

Hathaway on the other hand is an agitator and grinder 1st class. Loved his game in the preseason and am still loving it.

Both useful players, both with slightly different roles. Both important for next year IMO.

I expect some of this to eventually translate onto the scoresheet or the win column.

Maybe it's just me mis-reading the forum lately, but it seems like for the better part of the 7 game losing streak there was a lot of, like this game, "Calgary was the better team but lost". They certainly dominated on the shot chart last night and probably outchanced the Sharks as well, but that massive effort still resulted in a loss where the Flames only scored one goal.

Eventually shots and chances and possession only count for Corsi and not Wins. Ferland streaking to the net on a breakaway is great and everything and I like the guy, but Ferland streaking to the net on a breakaway and actually scoring is a significantly better result.

In a results based business, Ferland is just not getting it done this year. Watching Hathaway step into the lineup and appearing to be more effective in the same role is just highlighting it.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

The numbers will come if he continues to play well IMO and continues to develop. He has the skill to set up and finish. Powerforwards often take a little longer to develop. He's looked good with Johnny and Monahan. He looks nothing like Tootoo, nor is he anywhere near Lucic. Next season I'd look for him to play as a 2nd line power forward and hope for some points to finally hit the board. If he develops he'll be a very valuable player for us as he'll add some size, strength and physicality to our top two lines.

People have no patience with young players these days. Look how long it is taking Colborne to get his game together and he's what, 3 years older than Ferland? I'm still more excited about Ferland's upside than I am about Poirier, Shinkaruk, Klimchuk, Agostino, etc. If he doesn't take a big step forward next year I'll be worried but I think his game is coming along just fine. Might not be coming along as fast as some people want but you can't fast forward development and confidence gains.

Can you provide examples of this statement? (legit question, don't know if its right or wrong)

[1Nite]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

I think Ferland needs to work on his shot accuracy.

He stickhandles well to get out of corners and make passes and has good success in making that first move to give himself some space to shoot. He also has a relatively quick release and good velocity from what I can see.

In all, he's thinking the right things offensively and has an instinct. In that respect, he's ahead of Jooris. I don't think Jooris has much offensive instinct or awareness; rather, he works hard to try and generate chances by brute force a la Bouma. Ideally, we don't need both of Bouma or Jooris.

That's what I have seen, and thought the same thing, if he works on his aim and using his teammates better, if he could provide a steady 15-20 goals and bring a physical preference, I would be satisfied with him, if he could be more that would be great

[Bingo]

I'm torn on Ferland.

I totally understand that it wasn't practical to think he could play 82 games like he did the 6 against Vancouver, but I guess I thought he'd do it more than 6 times this year, which he hasn't.

So why?

You'd think when a young player got a taste of a skill that he can apply that gets a city in an uproar he'd apply it. Unmotivated? Lazy? Distracted? Off ice problems? Internal dressing room problems?

Just doesn't seem to want to do it.

He has hands, I think that's why he gets PP time above Frolik right now because he's great at retrieving pucks, and using his body to win the cycle, but his edge is largely gone and I don't get it.

I thought Hathaway stealing his role (thunder) would make a difference but it hasn't.

[nik-]

I think it's a problem with some of these tougher guys who are expected to play a high energy, physical game, but also had some pop in junior. They get a taste of some points and accolades and want that to be their game and move away from what really got them there.

Ferland has been a disappointment this year in my opinion, but we'll see what happens next year I guess.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Can you provide examples of this statement? (legit question, don't know if its right or wrong)

Bertuzzi took like 4-5 years before he broke out as a great power forward, Lucic I think was his 4th full year. Even Iginla didn't break into the elite power forward status until year 4-5. Shanahan was like 6 years before he broke out for real.

These guy's "breakout" seasons are relative though. Different eras and better projected players, but they still took time before they really came into their own. Ferland will probably top out as a secondary type power forward, not an elite one, and he wasn't projected like these guys, but when the elite PFs took 4-5 years to develop I think Ferland's development should be taken a couple years before he is written off.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Expectations have been lowered I guess.




I expect some of this to eventually translate onto the scoresheet or the win column.

Maybe it's just me mis-reading the forum lately, but it seems like for the better part of the 7 game losing streak there was a lot of, like this game, "Calgary was the better team but lost". They certainly dominated on the shot chart last night and probably outchanced the Sharks as well, but that massive effort still resulted in a loss where the Flames only scored one goal.

Eventually shots and chances and possession only count for Corsi and not Wins. Ferland streaking to the net on a breakaway is great and everything and I like the guy, but Ferland streaking to the net on a breakaway and actually scoring is a significantly better result.

In a results based business, Ferland is just not getting it done this year. Watching Hathaway step into the lineup and appearing to be more effective in the same role is just highlighting it.

Ferland is generating far more offensively than Hathaway.

What we're getting from Hathaway right now is that initial exuberance. We'll see what he looks like once that wears off.

Ferland is something like what we saw with Byron last year - lots of chances but he's not converting. Sometimes they just don't go in. But what is important is that you're getting the chances.

And this season, Byron has shown once again that that is true. This year, they're going in for him.

I expect they'll start to go in for Ferland as well. But we'll see I guess.

As for Hathaway, we'll see if he can generate scoring chances with any kind of regularity.

[CsInMyBlood]

Put me in the camp that thinks Ferland has been playing well, although the points aren't there.

I watch the little things he does every game and I believe the guy has some high hockey IQ, natural ability, thinks the game at high speed, plus has some great hands. He always uses his feet to kick the puck up to his stick, quick reactions to situations and his hockey mind is crafty. I think he is highly skilled, much more than most people believe he is at this point in his career.

One of my favorite Ferkland moments from last night was Bennett getting in and putting a little hit on a Sharks d man as Jones covered the puck, right as the whistle went. Ferland skated right up to Bennett and stood in front of him as a Shark was coming at Sam. The Shark just turned off while Ferland gave him the stare down.

Seriously watch him closely every shift next game. He does so many of the little things right, I'm really surprised people are being harsh towards his game.

I have the feeling he will start putting the puck in the net and his line mates will start burying his set ups and the critics of his game will quickly come around.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Ferland is generating far more offensively than Hathaway.

What we're getting from Hathaway right now is that initial exuberance. We'll see what he looks like once that wears off.

Ferland is something like what we saw with Byron last year - lots of chances but he's not converting. Sometimes they just don't go in. But what is important is that you're getting the chances.

And this season, Byron has shown once again that that is true. This year, they're going in for him.

I expect they'll start to go in for Ferland as well. But we'll see I guess.

As for Hathaway, we'll see if he can generate scoring chances with any kind of regularity.

Yes and no. Normally this would be the case for almost any rookie coming up from the minors, but I'm not convinced this is initial exuberance from Hathaway. This is just normal Hathaway. This is what he does all the time in the AHL.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

^ Well said CsInMyBlood. Fully agree and out of thanks.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Brad Pascall on the Fan960 says they have used a regular recall on Ortio. So no need to fear him getting sent down due to Backstrom being ready.

[AC]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Brad Pascall on the Fan960 says they have used a regular recall on Ortio. So no need to fear him getting sent down due to Backstrom being ready.

Can we send Hiller down then please?

[heep223]

Originally Posted by AC

Can we send Hiller down then please?

Pretty sure they can no longer waive Hiller.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by AC

Can we send Hiller down then please?

Don't we need him to tank a couple last games against bottom dwellers? Start him a couple games against teams like ARIx2, TOR, WPG. I doubt we'd play him vs EDM or VAN due to rivalry but why not the teams I listed? Gives him a chance to show the NHL he can or cannot play and gives us a decent chance to lose those 4 pointers Wouldn't affect any playoff races.

I think the games against ARI, TOR, and WPG are perfect games to play Hiller or Backstrom. Be interesting to see if the Flames do that.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

Yes and no. Normally this would be the case for almost any rookie coming up from the minors, but I'm not convinced this is initial exuberance from Hathaway. This is just normal Hathaway. This is what he does all the time in the AHL.

Originally it was stated that Hathaway will be the next Jooris.

I hope that's not the case because Jooris doesn't have the jump he used to. The same jump that Hathaway currently has.

So my question would be do you think Jooris played just like Hathaway in the AHL? Or did Hathaway show this same jump and grittiness constantly in the AHL as well?

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Originally it was stated that Hathaway will be the next Jooris.

I hope that's not the case because Jooris doesn't have the jump he used to. The same jump that Hathaway currently has.

So my question would be do you think Jooris played just like Hathaway in the AHL? Or did Hathaway show this same jump and grittiness constantly in the AHL as well?

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

Yes and no. Normally this would be the case for almost any rookie coming up from the minors, but I'm not convinced this is initial exuberance from Hathaway. This is just normal Hathaway. This is what he does all the time in the AHL.

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