[News] Flames recall Hathaway

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Hathaway is good. Take Jooris' tenacity on the forecheck, Ferland's strong body, and Bouma's heart and soul and you get him.

That is about what I took from his debut last night. Basically, if he can play like that with any regularity, he could replace Lance Bouma.

Also, the four recall limit is such a dumb rule.

[Table 5]

The hustle of Hathaway yesterday was impressive.

The trick is repeating that type of play game after game, season after season. That's been the problem with Jooris, Ferland and to some extent Bouma. When they are on fire, they can be just as effective...but they just can't seem to sustain that level of energy every game. Chances are neither can Hathaway, so I'm curious to see what type of game he plays after the adrenaline has worn off.

[BrownDrake]

I think the problem this year versus last year is the presence of less hungry newcomers to inject some energy and enthusiasm into the line-up. Bennett, really the only new face has been, on most nights, our most effective player points aside. I hope management sees the opportunity to play 2 to 3 young forward and 1-2 young defensemen next season. Let's not sign UFA's, lets take one more year and see what we have in some of our picks and prospects (Poirier, Klimchuck, Arnold, Kulak, Hathaway, Agostino, Grant, Hamilton, Morrison etc.) - hopefully over the next 20 games and into Christmas next season most of these guys get a shot at a few games.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

That is about what I took from his debut last night. Basically, if he can play like that with any regularity, he could replace Lance Bouma.

Also, the four recall limit is such a dumb rule.

Bouma has had a tough year, but he doesn't need replacing.

If Hathaway can play like that every night, he can replace Jooris.

The Flames don't have enough physical, energy-driving guys that can forecheck.

If Hathaway can join Ferland and Bouma, we're heading in the right direction.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Just have to hope that Hathaway doesn't lose his jump like Jooris did after the novelty of playing in the NHL wore off.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Bouma has had a tough year, but he doesn't need replacing.

Tough year or not, Bouma was always going to struggle to live up to his contract. If you can get what Bouma brought at a lower cost, it isn't a difficult decision.

If Hathaway can not replace what a healthy Bouma brings, that changes the conversation. But we'll need a far larger sample size to come to a conclusion one way or another.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Tough year or not, Bouma was always going to struggle to live up to his contract. If you can get what Bouma brought at a lower cost, it isn't a difficult decision.

If Hathaway can not replace what a healthy Bouma brings, that changes the conversation. But we'll need a far larger sample size to come to a conclusion one way or another.

We need more Boumas, not less. Having a RW version of Bouma doesn't make Bouma redundant, it would give us depth. Let's try not to judge Bouma too harshly during a season he had two major injuries, they've obviously affected his game. Bouma's contract does not cripple us and I don't see us looking to move him. He's an identity player for us. Basically the leader of our bottom two lines, setting the example and work ethic. Bouma isn't the problem, he's part of the solution.

Now if we wanna talk about Hathaway making Bollig less useful I can see that having some merit. It does also affect Jooris but Jooris has the added flexibility of being able to play centre.

[GranteedEV]

Injuries aside, Bouma has spent all season attached to Stajan which really hurts after all the free "Backlund time" he got a year ago. Get Bouma back on Backlund's line and his opportunties will return.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

We need more Boumas, not less.

We need Bouma's that can score regularly, like last year's Bouma. Hathaway's energy and physicality look good and all but he didn't score much in the AHL and will likely be another scoreless, bottom 6 energy guy in the NHL. I get that every team needs those guys but is this really the best call-up that Stockton can offer?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by edslunch

We need Bouma's that can score regularly, like last year's Bouma. Hathaway's energy and physicality look good and all but he didn't score much in the AHL and will likely be another scoreless, bottom 6 energy guy in the NHL. I get that every team needs those guys but is this really the best call-up that Stockton can offer?

Hathaway was chosen for a few reasons.

1) He is on an ELC and could be sent to Adirondack of the ECHL easily. They needed to send someone to Adirondack ahead of time the day before the deadline so they'd be close enough to get to Philly in time for the game.

2) We traded two RWs at the deadline and Hathway is a right shooting RW.

Is he the best call up that Stockton can offer? Short answer is no. He projects as a 4th line RW most likely but made sense to call up for the two reasons above.

Does Stockton have players who project as more than 4th line players? Yes. Poirier and Shinkaruk have top two line upside still I believe. Hamilton is more of a 4th line player probably. Agostino's upside is probably 3rd/4th liner at best. Arnold probably projects as a 3rd liner at best.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

per the AHL transactions page Ortio and Wotherspoon were "paper" assigned to Stockton making them eligible for the AHL playoffs and to be assigned to the AHL after the trade deadline.

interesting enough Nakladal wasn't added to the AHL roster before the trade deadline (or at least the paper transaction isn't showing up on the AHL website at this time) which means he will be up for the rest of the season

It sounds like Ortio and Wotherspoon are up on Emergency Recalls (Ortio for Ramo and Spoon for Smid), so doing paper transactions on them doesn't change their status or count against the 4 recall limit. Doing a paper transaction on Nakladal would have counted against the limit.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by getbak

It sounds like Ortio and Wotherspoon are up on Emergency Recalls (Ortio for Ramo and Spoon for Smid), so doing paper transactions on them doesn't change their status or count against the 4 recall limit. Doing a paper transaction on Nakladal would have counted against the limit.

Thanks for clarifying that. Treliving specifically said that Hathaway was a non-emergency callup, but didn't mention the others. It would make a big difference if the team had only 1 callup left instead of 3, and it would look very bad on Treliving if he were unaware of that.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

We need more Boumas, not less. Having a RW version of Bouma doesn't make Bouma redundant, it would give us depth. Let's try not to judge Bouma too harshly during a season he had two major injuries, they've obviously affected his game. Bouma's contract does not cripple us and I don't see us looking to move him. He's an identity player for us. Basically the leader of our bottom two lines, setting the example and work ethic. Bouma isn't the problem, he's part of the solution.

Now if we wanna talk about Hathaway making Bollig less useful I can see that having some merit. It does also affect Jooris but Jooris has the added flexibility of being able to play centre.

I love Bouma, but I can't see how having more of him helps. It's great that he hits, but it accomplishes absolutely nothing.

I'll let Dave Tippett speak for me here:

[united]

Originally Posted by getbak

It sounds like Ortio and Wotherspoon are up on Emergency Recalls (Ortio for Ramo and Spoon for Smid), so doing paper transactions on them doesn't change their status or count against the 4 recall limit. Doing a paper transaction on Nakladal would have counted against the limit.

That would make sense as with the acquisition of Jokipakka, Wotherspoon is back to Stockton today.

[Caged Great]

FYI, this is basically how Hathaway plays on a daily basis. Hits, energy and heads to the front of the net to bang in goals. That's how he scored most of his goals last year.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I love Bouma, but I can't see how having more of him helps. It's great that he hits, but it accomplishes absolutely nothing.

I'll let Dave Tippett speak for me here:

Good lord. Do we have to go over the fundamentals of hockey?

When Bouma is healthy he gets in fast on the forecheck. He often finishes every check. What does this accomplish?

1. Getting in fast on the forecheck pressures their defensemen to move the puck early. This can result in useful events like turnovers at best. Even without causing a turnover you can disrupt their breakout and thus their offence and possession.
2. Finishing your check ensures the defensemen cannot immediately be jumping up into the play. It also punishes their defensemen. Over the course of the game it can take a toll on their body.

As they take more and more hits they are going to want to pass the puck even earlier to avoid taking hits and thus you are even more likely to force turnovers. You can literally change the way their defensemen play if you pressure them and follow it up with a physical punishment.

This becomes magnified in the playoffs where you can actually start to injure their defensemen over the course of a 7 game series and the forechecking and hitting pressure starts to change the way they play the game and break out or fail to break out.

I mean if you don't understand the value of forechecking and hitting then clearly you aren't going to like Bouma. But our management and coaches do and he remains a key and core player on our bottom two lines because of the way he consistently gets in fast on the forecheck and finishes his checks. His active stick while forechecking helps force turnovers. Bouma ranks up there with Jooris, Ferland, Frolik and Gaudreau as some of our best forecheckers. Bouma Jooris, and Ferland do it with energy, skating and hitting. Gaudreau and Frolik replace the hitting with elite anticipation.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Good lord. Do we have to go over the fundamentals of hockey?

When Bouma is healthy he gets in fast on the forecheck. He often finishes every check. What does this accomplish?

1. Getting in fast on the forecheck pressures their defensemen to move the puck early. This can result in useful events like turnovers at best. Even without causing a turnover you can disrupt their breakout and thus their offence and possession.
2. Finishing your check ensures the defensemen cannot immediately be jumping up into the play. It also punishes their defensemen. Over the course of the game it can take a toll on their body.

As they take more and more hits they are going to want to pass the puck even earlier to avoid taking hits and thus you are even more likely to force turnovers. You can literally change the way their defensemen play if you pressure them and follow it up with a physical punishment.

This becomes magnified in the playoffs where you can actually start to injure their defensemen over the course of a 7 game series and the forechecking and hitting pressure starts to change the way they play the game and break out or fail to break out.

I mean if you don't understand the value of forechecking and hitting then clearly you aren't going to like Bouma. But our management and coaches do and he remains a key and core player on our bottom two lines because of the way he consistently gets in fast on the forecheck and finishes his checks. His active stick while forechecking helps force turnovers. Bouma ranks up there with Jooris, Ferland, Frolik and Gaudreau as some of our best forecheckers. Bouma Jooris, and Ferland do it with energy, skating and hitting. Gaudreau and Frolik replace the hitting with elite anticipation.

You're so smug. I understand the value of hitting. Can't get the puck without it.


All hitting isn't equal though. That's where we disagree. You think because someone hits it's useful. If the team never sees the benefit of those hits, why are they helpful?

Ferland hit the Canucks a lot. And it helped. Hell, Frolik is awesome at forechecking and hitting. Better than Bouma. Much better.

I love Bouma's passion and his dedication. You win with that attitude and it's contagious. All things that stats don't tell you. What they do tell you though, is there's a cost on the ice and I'm not sure it's worth it.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

You're so smug. I understand the value of hitting. Can't get the puck without it.


All hitting isn't equal though. That's where we disagree. You think because someone hits it's useful. If the team never sees the benefit of those hits, why are they helpful?

Ferland hit the Canucks a lot. And it helped. Hell, Frolik is awesome at forechecking and hitting. Better than Bouma. Much better.

I love Bouma's passion and his dedication. You win with that attitude and it's contagious. All things that stats don't tell you. What they do tell you though, is there's a cost on the ice and I'm not sure it's worth it.

Bouma is limited in the hockey IQ department, I think that's what you're talking about.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Bouma is one of the best and most consistent forecheckers on the team. He gets in there fast and forces defenders to move the puck earlier than they want to. He's our best bottom 6 player at doing it and its an important job. I don't see him costing this team at all. I see him being one of our most effective defensive and physical forwards. He's a very important player on this team. If you watch him closely when he's on the ice you may see it too. Bouma when healthy is hands down the most effective bottom 6 winger on this team IMO. He's a complete pain in the butt to play against and is very effective defensively and physically punishing the opposition. In his own end he's very solid and a leader in terms of sacrificing himself to prevent goals.

Bouma is a key player, a core player. It's just that most fans underrate him because his best contributions are defensively and physically two areas that some fans overlook and underrate.

[Resolute 14]

I neither underrate defence nor physicality, and I don't consider Bouma a core piece. I don't overrate analytics either, but it is notable that Bouma is one of the worst players on our team at driving possession, every single year.

Healthy, 20 goal scoring Bouma who forechecks well and plays physical is a good thing for us. But his playing style will increase the likleyhood of injuries. Next year could well be the most important of his career.