Man cites 'gender identity' rule after stripping in women's washroom

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

this was only a matter of time, and if a high profile case happens in Alberta, it will likely be the end of the NDP. I'm a big Notely fan; some of the stuff they did - carbon tax, higher marginal tax rates - had to be done. But boy...being ideological also makes you very stupid.

Ideological... that also includes every religion and backwoods philosopher.

[Patek23]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

The main answer to your question is that it is very risky for a transgender woman...man who became woman...to use a male bathroom. Lots of dummies still think it's a threat or are just scared by something different. And a person living as a woman is going to create all kinds of unwanted attention by going into a men's room.

And also I think most people have no concept of what transgender is. It's weird to expect someone living as a woman to use the men's room.

I've clearly stated twice that if they have now become a woman than there is no problem using the women's. If you have a penis, sorry, still going where the urinals are.


Edit- and if you want to discuss risks. If you allow anyone who "identifies" (in quotations because that is very loose terminology) as whichever gender of their pleasing simply on good faith to enter any change room they please. I find the risk of any odd pervert abusing these privileges and the potential for more harm done much more likely than whatever risks may pose a person who identifies as a different gender than what their body is and is required to change in the change room accordingly. I'm all for everyone to have equal rights but this is taking that to an extreme.

[GGG]

So we already allow pedophiles to change with children of the same gender? Why is it worse if a pedophile is with the opposite gender? The answer is we don't know it's happening.

What to individuals and facilities do when there is a naked man in men's change room leering at kids. The same should be done in this case

[PaperBagger'14]

I'd be really curious to hear a mature young adults take on this. Do transgendered kids "come out" like gay kids did when I was in high school? Is it more commonly accepted among young adults? Since I grew up with kids when being gay began to be more socially accepted and not feared, I'm wondering if this movement is the same.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by GGG

So we already allow pedophiles to change with children of the same gender? Why is it worse if a pedophile is with the opposite gender? The answer is we don't know it's happening.

What to individuals and facilities do when there is a naked man in men's change room leering at kids. The same should be done in this case

I was at the pool in New Westminster a few years ago when some guy was in the kiddie pool with a hard on, two bikers dragged him in to the change room and beat him senseless to the general applause of the rest of the pool.

I'm not sure if that was official pool policy but it sure took the staff a long time to call the cops.

[Patek23]

Originally Posted by GGG

So we already allow pedophiles to change with children of the same gender? Why is it worse if a pedophile is with the opposite gender? The answer is we don't know it's happening.

What to individuals and facilities do when there is a naked man in men's change room leering at kids. The same should be done in this case

Do you have a daughter?

If so, are you okay with any man who can on a whim claim he "identifies" as a man coming in and being able to strip and watch your daughter strip?


I would even change my position one further and that if you've had the sex on your drivers license changed to woman from male than the women's change room is also accessible for you. I'm not saying transgendered shouldn't have access, I'm saying it shouldn't just be on good faith. Till than your still identified by the state/province as a man and should be using the men's change room. I don't think giving a la carte access is the answer to the extremely small porition of people this may benefit or prevent discomfort too and the risk of the larger amount of discomfort on the women's end. If a man decides he identifies as a woman now and wants to be able to use the women's change room than they can go through the proper recourse first. If I show up at NASA saying I'm an astronaut, they shouldn't just take my word for it and let me on the space ship, I should have to pass the smell test first.


Edit- also since you made a point about pedophiles also in the change room of men's. A quick google search shows that heterosexual pedophiles outweigh homosexual ones 2:1. So yeah I would say it's doubling the risk of an already undesirable situation.

[Bunk]

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&sourc...32999857&rct=j

There is a good reason, I think, why bathroom symbols are the gender stereotype of man in pants and women in dress. It should have to do with gender identity more than private bits - otherwise this person must use the female change room. Doesn't seem to make sense. At a minimum, it's not as simple as some make it out to be (lady parts, lady bathroom; man parts, man bathroom).

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

I've clearly stated twice that if they have now become a woman than there is no problem using the women's. If you have a penis, sorry, still going where the urinals are.


Edit- and if you want to discuss risks. If you allow anyone who "identifies" (in quotations because that is very loose terminology) as whichever gender of their pleasing simply on good faith to enter any change room they please. I find the risk of any odd pervert abusing these privileges and the potential for more harm done much more likely than whatever risks may pose a person who identifies as a different gender than what their body is and is required to change in the change room accordingly. I'm all for everyone to have equal rights but this is taking that to an extreme.

You can say whatever you want however many times you want and you'll still be wrong every time you say it. You literally have everything wrong. Non discrimination laws relating to bathroom use have existed for 35 years in North America. In that time there has been 1 (one) single solitary case of someone dressing up as a transgendered woman to commit an assault in a bathroom.

http://nounequalrights.com/informati...ustrated-1.pdf

In context there were 84k rapes reported last year in the usa. Zero involved fake transgendered people taking advantage of on discrimination laws.

http://mediamatters.org/research/201...es-abou/203867

More people have been shot by their dogs than have been assaulted by people abusing transgender bathrooms.

In contrast in 2013 70% of transgendered women reported abuse when using the washroom.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn-...b_8670438.html

The guy in Seattle was making a statement about the law that isn't reality, that has never happened.

If so, are you okay with any man who can on a whim claim he "identifies" as a man coming in and being able to strip and watch your daughter strip?

Dressing, acting, living a transgender role is a whim? Again, you have fully fallen for a giant myth with literally zero basis in reality.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

Do you have a daughter?

If so, are you okay with any man who can on a whim claim he "identifies" as a man coming in and being able to strip and watch your daughter strip?

I would even change my position one further and that if you've had the sex on your drivers license changed to woman from male than the women's change room is also accessible for you. I'm not saying transgendered shouldn't have access, I'm saying it shouldn't just be on good faith. Till than your still identified by the state/province as a man and should be using the men's change room. I don't think giving a la carte access is the answer to the extremely small porition of people this may benefit or prevent discomfort too and the risk of the larger amount of discomfort on the women's end. If a man decides he identifies as a woman now and wants to be able to use the women's change room than they can go through the proper recourse first. If I show up at NASA saying I'm an astronaut, they shouldn't just take my word for it and let me on the space ship, I should have to pass the smell test first.


Edit- also since you made a point about pedophiles also in the change room of men's. A quick google search shows that heterosexual pedophiles outweigh homosexual ones 2:1. So yeah I would say it's doubling the risk of an already undesirable situation.

Do you have a son? How do you feel that their is a creepy guy watching your so strip. And since they are much more Invisable in a men's change room the probability of occurance even with 50% fewer pedophiles is greater.

So do we have a problem with pedophiles in men's change rooms? If the answer is yes how are we solving it and does that work for pretend trans pedophiles in female change rooms. The issue is not different. People are upset because it's Icky.

I would tell my daughter if this was occurring to use the family change room or stall.

If the pedophile is going to public change rooms to leer while claiming to be trans already why wouldn't they do the paperwork to get certified.

[PepsiFree]

Statistically your son or daughter should be FAR more cautious of friends and family than they should be of strangers posing as transgender in a public space.

It's almost so statistically unique that most would consider it a ridiculous fear.

[Wormius]

I hope this doesn't come across as overly ignorant. If somebody is using the change room of their identified gender, isn't their appearance to some degree already resembling their identified gender? Why would it cause concern to the people around, unless the person was clearly making no effort in their appearance?

I guess my feeling is that if somebody had a strong enough desire to go through the effort and trouble of pretending to be transgendered just to gawk at people in the change room, that they probably would have found another way to do accomplish their end goal if it wasn't an option.

[Patek23]

Are people really that daft, or looking for an argument. My issue is that in this particular spot legislature has allowed a man who obviously shouldnt be allowed into to the womens change room access. No where have I said transgendered shouldnt be allowed access. Im saying there should be safeguards too insure that these kinds of things cant happen and/or have legislature worded more specifically.

[sun]

Originally Posted by T@T

/this
/world view
/common sense
/thread

What is this, poetry?

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

Are people really that daft, or looking for an argument. My issue is that in this particular spot legislature has allowed a man who obviously shouldnt be allowed into to the womens change room access. No where have I said transgendered shouldnt be allowed access. Im saying there should be safeguards too insure that these kinds of things cant happen and/or have legislature worded more specifically.

Actually it hasn't. The law specifies transgender people are allowed to use the washroom they identify with. This guy is not transgender. He's a man living as a man. The existing laws preventing this sort of thing all would apply. The reason, we find out now, that he wasn't arrested is because the staff at the pool never called the police. The story was made public by a caller to a radio show.

Here's a great article from the opposite point of view....a transgender woman using the men's bathroom to prove a point...

http://www.vancouversun.com/life/vic...927/story.html

A very interesting point, 50-70% of assaults in bathrooms involve transgender people. I that indicates a problem that needs to be addressed.

[Patek23]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Actually it hasn't. The law specifies transgender people are allowed to use the washroom they identify with. This guy is not transgender. He's a man living as a man. The existing laws preventing this sort of thing all would apply. The reason, we find out now, that he wasn't arrested is because the staff at the pool never called the police. The story was made public by a caller to a radio show.

Here's a great article from the opposite point of view....a transgender woman using the men's bathroom to prove a point...

http://www.vancouversun.com/life/vic...927/story.html

A very interesting point, 50-70% of assaults in bathrooms involve transgender people. I that indicates a problem that needs to be addressed.

Fair enough. If he actually isnt able too than I don't really have an issue. But a fair question here. What is required to be considered transgendered. Like he has admitted that he was trying to prove a point. Now let's say even though he obviously still dresses as a man and acts like a man. If he vehemently claims that aside from all that he on the inside identifies as a woman, than realistically he is than allowed access right?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

Fair enough. If he actually isnt able too than I don't really have an issue. But a fair question here. What is required to be considered transgendered. Like he has admitted that he was trying to prove a point. Now let's say even though he obviously still dresses as a man and acts like a man. If he vehemently claims that aside from all that he on the inside identifies as a woman, than realistically he is than allowed access right?

Anecdotal, but I've legitimately never met someone like that as part of the LGBT community. That might describe someone at the very beginning of their transition, but using a different bathroom would generally be a result of wanting to fit in with their appearance.

To put it crudely: the bathroom chosen is based more on appearance. No legitimate transgender person is going to dress like man and use the women's bathroom. They're using a bathroom outside of the gender they're born with because they're dressing like that gender (like the cowboy pictured above is making a statement on).

Bathroom choice isn't like, the FIRST thing a transgender person decides to switch up. If you see a man walking into a women's washroom, it's a man walking into a women's washroom.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Anecdotal, but I've legitimately never met someone like that as part of the LGBT community. That might describe someone at the very beginning of their transition, but using a different bathroom would generally be a result of wanting to fit in with their appearance.

To put it crudely: the bathroom chosen is based more on appearance. No legitimate transgender person is going to dress like man and use the women's bathroom. They're using a bathroom outside of the gender they're born with because they're dressing like that gender (like the cowboy pictured above is making a statement on).

Bathroom choice isn't like, the FIRST thing a transgender person decides to switch up. If you see a man walking into a women's washroom, it's a man walking into a women's washroom.

Really? My buddy's roommate was a dude and other than the adam's apple was a dude despite looking like a woman the second he left his apartment.

I dont know what bathroom he chose to use, but he looked like a woman from the second he set foot out the door.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Locke

Really? My buddy's roommate was a dude and other than the adam's apple was a dude despite looking like a woman the second he left his apartment.



I dont know what bathroom he chose to use, but he looked like a woman from the second he set foot out the door.

Born a woman and dressed like a woman in public?

They used the women's washroom.

[Patek23]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Anecdotal, but I've legitimately never met someone like that as part of the LGBT community. That might describe someone at the very beginning of their transition, but using a different bathroom would generally be a result of wanting to fit in with their appearance.

To put it crudely: the bathroom chosen is based more on appearance. No legitimate transgender person is going to dress like man and use the women's bathroom. They're using a bathroom outside of the gender they're born with because they're dressing like that gender (like the cowboy pictured above is making a statement on).

Bathroom choice isn't like, the FIRST thing a transgender person decides to switch up. If you see a man walking into a women's washroom, it's a man walking into a women's washroom.

My point is how is security/police supposed to know who is transgendered or not. It states you can use the change room that you identify with. If someone claims to identify as a woman but hasn't changed anything about themselves appearance wise than in theory you just have to take someone's word for it no?

You mention a transgendered person isn't likely to swap rooms at the start. But again my concern isn't about people who are legitimately transgendered. I'm concerned about what safe guards prevent someone from abusing the rules for access that is NOT transgendered.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Flaming Homer

If someone claims to identify as a woman but hasn't changed anything about themselves appearance wise than in theory you just have to take someone's word for it no?.

My point is that you're answering your own question.

In theory, no.

You don't just take someone's word for it. The law is designed to protect people from having to use bathrooms they would otherwise be subject to abuse it. It's not meant to protect a person who appears to be a man's right to use a female washroom. It protects a transgender person who appears female's right to use a female washroom.

It's not a free for all. When the law is in play, you will likely never notice anything out of the ordinary. That's the point.