[News] Flames recall Ortio

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Do people really still think that having 3 goalies to start the year in any way contributed to the team's abysmal start?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by saillias

Ortio hasn't good enough to be a full-time starter in the AHL. He has not earned nor does he really deserve another start.

He hasn't, but we can't play Jonas Hiller for 30 more games.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Do people really still think that having 3 goalies to start the year in any way contributed to the team's abysmal start?

It didn't help.

[JJ1532]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Do people really still think that having 3 goalies to start the year in any way contributed to the team's abysmal start?

Yes. Not the main reason, but definitely a reason. Yes, they should have shown stronger mental strength, but the way they were handled was poor.

Last year, Hiller and Ramo made a reasonable tandem. One gets hot, gets a run of games, cools off, other guy comes in, does well, gets a run of games, cools off, rinse repeat. But having 3 goalies changes the dynamic. I think all 3 must have had, in the back of their minds, the worry that if they had a bad game or run of bad games, they could get demoted to Stockton or possible traded(more in Ramo/Hillers case). Playing with that uncertainty as to which 2 of the 3 would make the roster contributed to their poor form.

Whether you hang that on the coaches, GM or players and how much it was to blame for the poor start, I do think it contributed to the poor start.

[madmike]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Do people really still think that having 3 goalies to start the year in any way contributed to the team's abysmal start?

Not really. Ortio was never really a factor. Ramo has started poorly both years with the Flames and Hiller was just as cold this year. I don't think having Ortio in the mix made any difference. It's not like he dressed that often.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Do people really still think that having 3 goalies to start the year in any way contributed to the team's abysmal start?

I'm not even sure Ramo and Hiller were bad in October. The kind of goals they were allowing, especially while Hamilton was struggling, were not all their fault. Hiller's always struggled protecting the top shelf and that's where the sens scored all those goals on him that one game too.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by JJ1532

Yes. Not the main reason, but definitely a reason. Yes, they should have shown stronger mental strength, but the way they were handled was poor.

Last year, Hiller and Ramo made a reasonable tandem. One gets hot, gets a run of games, cools off, other guy comes in, does well, gets a run of games, cools off, rinse repeat. But having 3 goalies changes the dynamic. I think all 3 must have had, in the back of their minds, the worry that if they had a bad game or run of bad games, they could get demoted to Stockton or possible traded(more in Ramo/Hillers case). Playing with that uncertainty as to which 2 of the 3 would make the roster contributed to their poor form.

Whether you hang that on the coaches, GM or players and how much it was to blame for the poor start, I do think it contributed to the poor start.

I think that Ramo and Hiller's poor starts are all on them. Ortio being in the press box for a month shouldn't cause professional athletes to disintegrate like that. I honestly think they would've played poorly whether Ortio was on the roster or not.

The key to last year was that they took turns being hot and cold. Just as one would struggle, the other would get hot and Hartley juggled them perfectly. This year they both struggled at the same time so Hartley had nowhere to turn because Ortio was even worse.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I'm not even sure Ramo and Hiller were bad in October. The kind of goals they were allowing, especially while Hamilton was struggling, were not all their fault. Hiller's always struggled protecting the top shelf and that's where the sens scored all those goals on him that one game too.

The situation was exacerbated by the Flames D collectively struggling to a degree we haven't seen since the start of the 05/06 season. With Brodie being injured, the goalies playing poorly and the defensemen playing like poo... it really was a perfect storm of suck. It had nothing to do with Ortio IMO, outside of his two laughable starts of course.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Do people really still think that having 3 goalies to start the year in any way contributed to the team's abysmal start?

Not me. Having 3 abysmal goalies to start the year contributed to the abysmal start. Emphasis on abysmal, de-emphasis on 3. Any combination of two of Hiller-Ramo-Ortio would have produced the same results, in my opinion.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

He hasn't, but we can't play Jonas Hiller for 30 more games.

I've been wanting to see Poulin. Stats say he's at least Ortio's comparable, and this year, maybe better

Originally Posted by belsarius

Because the Flames are his employer and he should be doing what they asked, not what he feels is best. I can't even imagine telling my boss, nah I don't want to do that report because I think you are just wasting my time.

Were you aware of numbers like average NHL career, the history of pay in the NHL and frankly, the history of the Flames before you decided this?

And besides that I doubt your employment situation is comparable to an NHLer.

[JJ1532]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

I think that Ramo and Hiller's poor starts are all on them. Ortio being in the press box for a month shouldn't cause professional athletes to disintegrate like that. I honestly think they would've played poorly whether Ortio was on the roster or not.

The key to last year was that they took turns being hot and cold. Just as one would struggle, the other would get hot and Hartley juggled them perfectly. This year they both struggled at the same time so Hartley had nowhere to turn because Ortio was even worse.

But do you think taking 3 goalies into the season was a mistake? Because I sure as hell do. You can't rotate the net equally between 3 goalies, they should have gotten together after pre-season finished and picked 2 of the 3 to take into the season, then demoted the 3rd.

I don't see how that wasn't a mistake and if it was a mistake, then thats something that has to have contributed to the bad start. Like I said, whether you hold that entirely on the goalies, coaches, management or a combination of the 3, it was still a mistake and still something that contributed. How much is up for debate, but it contributed imo.

[edslunch]

The three headed monster was a cluster-fbomb and the D was terrible without Brodie. All the goalies sucked, Ortio may have been worse but I write off that whole period.

Disappointing he didn't play well in the AHL, which he has before. Here's hoping he turns it around

[edslunch]

Double post

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I'm not even sure Ramo and Hiller were bad in October. The kind of goals they were allowing, especially while Hamilton was struggling, were not all their fault. Hiller's always struggled protecting the top shelf and that's where the sens scored all those goals on him that one game too.

Not all of the goals they were letting in were bad but they couldn't seem to go through a game without letting in atleast one bad goal which was a huge problem.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by JJ1532

But do you think taking 3 goalies into the season was a mistake? Because I sure as hell do. You can't rotate the net equally between 3 goalies, they should have gotten together after pre-season finished and picked 2 of the 3 to take into the season, then demoted the 3rd.

I don't see how that wasn't a mistake and if it was a mistake, then thats something that has to have contributed to the bad start. Like I said, whether you hold that entirely on the goalies, coaches, management or a combination of the 3, it was still a mistake and still something that contributed. How much is up for debate, but it contributed imo.

It might have been a mistake but I don't think it cost us any points in the standings.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by saillias

Were you aware of numbers like average NHL career, the history of pay in the NHL and frankly, the history of the Flames before you decided this?

And besides that I doubt your employment situation is comparable to an NHLer.

Yes I am quite aware of all of those facts and really they all agree with my argument. If you don't want to listen to the team you get benched. If you don't like that you get demoted. If you don't like that, if you have any value left you get traded. And usually with the baggage of being a problem case for management.

This is exactly the attitude the Flames are trying to get rid of when dumping guys like Baertschi and benching Mony, Johnny and Bouma. If your boss thinks you need a conditioning stint because you are playing like #### then you act like a pro and do it. Otherwise you risk not seeing any NHL career, no NHL pay and no history with the team.

It doesn't matter what your employment is, if you don't listen to your boss your career is going to be over pretty quick. I just hope he learned it and demonstrates it when he has the opportunity.

[Finger Cookin]

Late to the discussion, but I'll chime in with the opinion that Ortio should be back next year, regardless of how he does during this call up or if he plays during this call up. It's too soon to move on from him.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

Late to the discussion, but I'll chime in with the opinion that Ortio should be back next year, regardless of how he does during this call up or if he plays during this call up. It's too soon to move on from him.

Only way Ortio doesn't come back is if he chooses to go back to Finland. Some stories I have read it sounds like the Flames know his development is a long process and this seasons step back isn't scaring them off.

Of course, who knows what can happen between now and the beginning of training camp next year.

[saXon]

Originally Posted by edslunch

The three headed monster was a cluster-fbomb and the D was terrible without Brodie. All the goalies sucked, Ortio may have been worse but I write off that whole period.

Disappointing he didn't play well in the AHL, which he has before. Here's hoping he turns it around

That the D was. However, to be fair, Gio was coming back to form from injury of a major muscle group and Hamilton was adopting a new system under a new team. If Brodie were to exit the team at this moment in time, I don't think the sting would hurt as bad as it did before.

I agree, that whole period should be written off as utterly useless.

We'll see if Ortio even gets a start, and what he'll bring.

[pgsieve]

I think we run with him.. Wasn't it this time last year that he bailed us out to a playoff spot