Alberta students to define their own gender

[JohnnyB]

I had a transgender student in my program last year. Female, but identifies as a boy. Took a long difficult time for him to arrive at that, including facing many struggles with his parents but the results have ultimately been so positive psychologically and emotionally. The year would have been easier for him, and so many other students would have benefitted, if we were prepared with more open terms and mental constructs to frame discussions with. It made me realise how important it is to build these things into the fabric of curriculum. It's still pretty avant garde here in China but I believe it is likely a universal issue.

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by jayswin

No worries, I came off a little harsh at first (like we all do on CP with touchy topics, haha) and I apologize. Definitely stick with the thread as it progresses if possible, even if some continue to take shots, we need more of this discussion around here, imo.

Well since you're being a bigger man than me about it here's my opinion:

I worked with an older trans gender person for one day. I didn't treat them like a man or woman but as a person. I didn't give them any more or less respect than i would give anybody else. I worked on the issue we needed to solve and went home at the end of the day just like any other day. Matter of fact, the person was really good to work with and understanding.

Do i wonder why people do it, i sure do. Do i make fun of them for their differences? Only in the same way i make fun of other people i like for being tubby. I get the favour returned.

The only time i find myself on the defensive about other people's differences is when they don't accept mine and now i have to change. Happy holidays is now politically correct not Merry Christmas. Possibly gym getting taken out of curriculums because people get hurt by it. I see your choices in life and it's all good so long as you see mine as well.

[firebug]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

I'm usually right there in the crusty conservative dude crowd, but this one I get - now.

My kid had his birthday. He had friends over from school and hockey and all that. And when I looked at the list of kids he made I saw a girls name and said oh who's that, is she from school? My kid said yes but [name] is a boy. I'm thinking weird boys name but whatever. Turns out [name] is a girl who self identifies as a boy. To my kid and his friends, he's a boy. A quiet, kinda odd boy, but they don't care. I dont pretend to understand any of it, but that experience made this not hypothetical for me. I can see not a looney set of rules but a kid who was just hanging with his friends.

If [name] is any example, I can guarantee your daughter will never feel like she is on a team with a boy. She might feel like there is a weird kid on her team, and maybe even know the story and find the whole thing awkward. But it will not be like it seems in your head where it's a dude walking into the girls changeroom. And from what I saw (only a couple of hours with pre-teens I admit) chances are our kids will handle this better than we do if we clear the way with rules like these.

This post made my day! Thank you!

[Canehdianman]

If my kid tried to abuse these new rules to get a sneak peak at the other sex, it seems like it would be a good time to sit him/her down for a learning moment and explain why these rules are in place and how helpful they are to those who actually need them.

Then, if that doesn't work, I can always smack em with a 2x4.

[troutman]

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/11/15...sgender-rights

Pete Davidson stopped by the Weekend Update desk on Saturday Night Live to criticize fears that it would allow men to use women’s public restrooms.

“Apparently this anti-discrimination law was voted down because some people claim it’s just an excuse to allow guys into women’s restrooms,” Davidson explained. “The theory is that men, in their relentless quest to watch women go to the bathroom, are going through years of hormones, surgery, changing their name, their wardrobe, coming out to their family — all for that big payoff of peeing in a room without urinals.”

[ernie]

I know I shouldn't be, but I am honestly still shocked that people don't understand that gender and who you are attracted to are not the same thing.

[codynw]

Serious question, what's the problem with using the words mother or father while talking about your own parents?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by ernie

I know I shouldn't be, but I am honestly still shocked that people don't understand that gender and who you are attracted to are not the same thing.

Why are you surprised by this? You do realize that the public in general were almost wholly ignorant of this stuff a mere decade or so ago, right? And that not everyone reads the same news sources or hangs out in the same social media platforms? Social changes takes decades - and not just because some people are reactionary, but because a lot of people simply aren't very plugged in to new ideas, new problems, and new norms, or they're plugged into different ones than other people are.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by codynw

Serious question, what's the problem with using the words mother or father while talking about your own parents?

I don't know. And apparently I should be ashamed or embarrassed because I don't know.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Vox

I agree with you. That one initially struck me the most. If a girl is good enough to make a men's team there is a case to be made that she is allowed to play. But like it or not, equality or not, men (boys) are physically stronger than girls. How does the reverse situation work with a boy on a girls team?

I don't want to get into details. But I've seen your last question in action and it seriously effected the competitive balance of the league. One player did that.

[PepsiFree]

This could go in the "you know what makes me happy" thread but I'll put it here instead. Sorry for length.

When the thread was started I thought "a thread that focuses on a section of the LGBT community on a sports-oriented Alberta-based message board? Oh. No." and I made my posts with a bit of anger and fear behind them. Vox honestly annoyed me with his lack of understanding. I went to bed thinking I was going to come back to see a group of people all mimicking Ezra Levant and talking about how awful this is and how the issue was going to invite perverts and sickos to prey on their children...

...but I woke up, and checked to find that I was very wrong. I wanted to thank Rouge, jays, Daradon, Roast, craigwd, and anyone I missed who represented this place in a great way. I'm not trans but as a member of the same community I have to say the impact of having that support is immeasurable. I also wanted to thank Vox for posing his concerns as true concerns and not as a way to hide some hate-filled message. Thank you for LISTENING and trying to understand even if on the end you aren't 100% comfortable or even 50% comfortable. Thank you for trying.

Sure, there have already been a couple "this doesn't matter" or "respect my opinion too!" posts, which is fine, and the thread is still new so I expect more, but for those of you who came out in support as the majority... you may not always know how much your opinion matters. It's easy for you to just say "yeah, I support that" even if the road to get to that support was long but for the kids or adults who read that and NEED that support? You've done so much more.

Anyways - thanks. That's what I'm trying to say really.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Vox

How are you going to stop it?

I don't know, the same way they stop it now?

Hey, you object to this, I get it, but getting all worked because you think all the rules are now out the window and anybody can (and will) just start going into any washroom isn't helping your cause.

It's not going to work like that, so you might as well stop pretending now that it is.

Same goes for the "my kids aren't going to be allowed to call me Dad" argument.

[polak]

So are they going to have "sex" and "gender" fields on forms and stuff now?

[craigwd]

Originally Posted by codynw

Serious question, what's the problem with using the words mother or father while talking about your own parents?

There is no problem; I'm not really sure how that came up in the first place since it's not mentioned in the policy.

Parents are only referred to twice in the guidelines document.

1. Basically the school will consult with the student about his/her choices before notifying the parents. In case he/she hadn't had that discussion yet.

2. Schools will stop using mother/father and other specific terms in handouts and mailings. But that is to respect the wishes of parents that may be transgendered themselves.

Originally Posted by polak

So are they going to have "sex" and "gender" fields on forms and stuff now?

Why? There's no reason it's necessary.

[peter12]

Kind of creeped out about the top-down approach, and the enforcement of political standards in what is essentially a private, family issue.

[polak]

Originally Posted by craigwd

Why? There's no reason it's necessary.

Sports? Medical information?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_di...es_in_medicine

[codynw]

Originally Posted by craigwd

There is no problem; I'm not really sure how that came up in the first place since it's not mentioned in the policy.

I got it from the original post of this thread.

Originally Posted by Vox

And apparently I am no longer allowed to be referred to as my daughters Father, nor can my wife be her Mother, and our daughter may not be referred to as a girl. Gender neutral terms must be used.

[DiracSpike]

I'll admit, trans issues took me a while to wrap my head around and I still don't quite understand it. On the surface these rules seem absurd but when you look into what trans kids have to go through it sounds terrible. These directives are for the best, most kids are who they are and the sneaking into bathroom argument sounds a lot like "it'll make kids gay" argument.

The one question I have is about changerooms. As I recall from my school days changerooms weren't used for gym until jr high and even then the showers were deactivated so no one got naked. But if that were the case, or if this rule gets expanded to swimming pools or something like that, then I could understand the concern of parents that would prefer for their child to not see a nude classmate of a different sex. I don't know if that's been addressed, if so I apologize.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by peter12

Kind of creeped out about the top-down approach, and the enforcement of political standards in what is essentially a private, family issue.

Trans people and children should absolutely be offered the same respect and accommodations that are offered to everyone else. Every person should be respected, and treated fairly.

But I share your sentiment that it is odd for the politicians to be essentially decreeing how things are going to work from now on. I imagine schools themselves are far more adaptable and have a better understanding of the issues than MLAs in Edmonton do. Twenty years ago, any school forms I received in elementary school all said "Parent/guardian" so schools were already sensitive to different familial situations even back then. They didn't need Ottawa or Edmonton to tell them what to do. I know that my teachers always taught the students to respect and care for every other student, NO MATTER what.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by peter12

Kind of creeped out about the top-down approach, and the enforcement of political standards in what is essentially a private, family issue.

Then homeschool your kids.