Religion is not about who created the world or life. All religions effectively come down to this: if you follow set of rules laid out in holy text, you go to heaven, if you don't follow those rules, you go to hell. Almost nobody believes in this. All religions, as far as I know, teach people to seek happiness in the afterlife, rather than in actual life. In reality all people are looking for success in this life rather than aiming for heaven. So I would argue that the whole point of religion is largely lost nowadays.
Who created the world/life is irrelevant to what we do in our lives. And, being atheist, I could say that it could possibly be an intellegent creater. For all we know, our universe could be a lab experiement in some superlab. Or maybe human beings were created as some biorobots by an alien civilizations. And maybe thousands years from now humans will create self-reproducing biorobots who will live on Mars or Venus. At some point they would start to live by themselves and begin to question their origins and purposes of their lifes. Again, the point of religion is not to explain how the world was created, but to tell human how to behave to get to heaven. The point of religion is that some "god" is watching you daily and if you pray to him it helps. That there's some overpowering creature that affects your life now and that will judge you by your actions once you die. And that is lost almost entirely. Noone really believes in this.
Also just because science can not explain some things it doesn't mean that God exists. Otherwise some ancient greek could argue that since ancient greek science can't explain lightning it proves the existence of Zeus.
Religion is not about who created the world or life. All religions effectively come down to this: if you follow set of rules laid out in holy text, you go to heaven, if you don't follow those rules, you go to hell.
*sigh*
This is precisely the kind of thinking that I am constantly correcting in my religious studies courses. Just last week I reminded my students that modern Western conceptions about "religion" that are perfectly caricatured by your assertion are myopic, and in fact impede our ability to honestly assess religious phenomena and behaviour holistically, and to formulate positive and effective responses.
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Originally Posted by Pointman
Almost nobody believes in this. All religions, as far as I know, teach people to seek happiness in the afterlife, rather than in actual life. In reality all people are looking for success in this life rather than aiming for heaven. So I would argue that the whole point of religion is largely lost nowadays.
I would agree that based on this tremendously narrow definition of religion, it would appear irrelevant. Quite to the contrary, while there are numerous and vocal proponents of some of what you have presented within various sects of Christianity and Islam, these should not stand as globally representative of "religion" in the modern world. I suspect that for just as many—if not more religious people, their practice and expression of religion amounts to considerably more than this, and is actually integral to their own orientation to life.
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Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls
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Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
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I am part of a discussion group reading all three parts of the Divine Comedy. Let me say that if Dante isn't right about the next world, then he is right about this world. No other Western body of thought matches Christianity's glorious moral cosmology.
I am part of a discussion group reading all three parts of the Divine Comedy. Let me say that if Dante isn't right about the next world, then he is right about this world. No other Western body of thought matches Christianity's glorious moral cosmology.
"O human race, born to fly upward, wherefore at a little wind dost thou so fall?"
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Originally Posted by Yamer
Even though he says he only wanted steak and potatoes, he was aware of all the rapes.
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Tickets are now on sale for Ken Ham's replica of Noah's Ark, scheduled to open on 7 July. You can get your's for the bargain basement price of USD $40 (+ $10 for parking).
For those who are especially obsessed with Ham's brand of Christian extremism, why not buy a boarding pass? USD $1,000 for three years, or USD $2,000 for life.
Beat the rush! Buy today!
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Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls
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Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
Tickets are now on sale for Ken Ham's replica of Noah's Ark, scheduled to open on 7 July. You can get your's for the bargain basement price of USD $40 (+ $10 for parking).
For those who are especially obsessed with Ham's brand of Christian extremism, why not buy a boarding pass? USD $1,000 for three years, or USD $2,000 for life.
Beat the rush! Buy today!
And if you come for the July 7th grand opening, you can enjoy the lyrical stylings of their musical guest, B.O.B!
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-James
GO FLAMES GO.
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Originally Posted by Azure
Typical dumb take.
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Tickets are now on sale for Ken Ham's replica of Noah's Ark, scheduled to open on 7 July. You can get your's for the bargain basement price of USD $40 (+ $10 for parking).
For those who are especially obsessed with Ham's brand of Christian extremism, why not buy a boarding pass? USD $1,000 for three years, or USD $2,000 for life.
Beat the rush! Buy today!
All of this looks super harmless, reeks of capitalism, and probably something that I would check out if I was in the area.
All of this looks super harmless, reeks of capitalism, and probably something that I would check out if I was in the area.
Pretty much. Although I would have a difficult time coughing up the USD $198 entrance fee + parking for my family to visit. Especially considering that the only open attraction will be the Ark itself.
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Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls
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Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
There are stories of a huge flood from other societies besides what's told in the Bible. I saw a program that showed the Black Sea was once a lake but with the melting of the ice age glaciers the sea level rose and reversed the flow as the Mediterranean Sea overflowed causing a huge flood and wiping out the people living on the shore. That there was a super boat Ark, is like a lot of stories that get embellished but may have a grain of truth with some family managing to float to safety.
There are stories of a huge flood from other societies besides what's told in the Bible. I saw a program that showed the Black Sea was once a lake but with the melting of the ice age glaciers the sea level rose and reversed the flow as the Mediterranean Sea overflowed causing a huge flood and wiping out the people living on the shore. That there was a super boat Ark, is like a lot of stories that get embellished but may have a grain of truth with some family managing to float to safety.
Maybe. Maybe not.
I have elaborated in the past on how probable it is that there is no precise historical kernel to any of the Ancient Near Eastern (ANE) flood myths, which are all really variants of the same story (Atrahasis, Utnapishtim in the Gilgamesh Epic, the Baʾal Cycle, etc.). In the end, I think the most reasonable explanation for the stories stems from extensive experience with river flooding on the Nile and the Euphrates Rivers, combined with a characteristic fear of the unknown in the mysterious, vast, large bodies of water: "Sea" (ים) ִis actually the name of a rival god of Yahweh in Israelite religion, and opposes Baʾal in Ugaritic mythology.
All the flood stories are part of larger creation myths, and all of the ANE creation myths feature the sea as an adversary who is conquered by a superior god in an event that gives shape to the cosmos.
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Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls
Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
I have elaborated in the past on how probable it is that there is no precise historical kernel to any of the Ancient Near Eastern (ANE) flood myths, which are all really variants of the same story (Atrahasis, Utnapishtim in the Gilgamesh Epic, the Baʾal Cycle, etc.). In the end, I think the most reasonable explanation for the stories stems from extensive experience with river flooding on the Nile and the Euphrates Rivers, combined with a characteristic fear of the unknown in the mysterious, vast, large bodies of water: "Sea" (ים) ִis actually the name of a rival god of Yahweh in Israelite religion, and opposes Baʾal in Ugaritic mythology.
All the flood stories are part of larger creation myths, and all of the ANE creation myths feature the sea as an adversary who is conquered by a superior god in an event that gives shape to the cosmos.
Yeah sure, the Black Sea is just one example of an ancient flood. Using the "Sea" as Yahweh's antagonist is a new one to me but at that time it seems reasonable. For me it's just an example of our internal struggle.
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“All know that the drop merges into the ocean, but few know that the ocean merges into the drop.”
― Kabir
I don't think religion is really about the afterlife.
The afterlife is unknowable. Myth teaches how to live.
I do think that awareness of our own mortality gives humans anxieties that are going to find an outlet somewhere. That's probably why the earliest and most primitive form of religion is ancestor worship. The notion that we too will endure as spirits watching over our children and tribes has fundamental appeal.
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Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Yeah sure, the Black Sea is just one example of an ancient flood. Using the "Sea" as Yahweh's antagonist is a new one to me but at that time it seems reasonable. For me it's just an example of our internal struggle.
Read Job 26, but with the recognition that every English translation presumes a naturalistic meaning behind YHWH's poetic speech. Of course, because the Hebrew Bible texts have been heavily edited in accordance with a strongly monotheistic programme, and with an eye to the dualistic worldview in Greek philosophic thought that all occurred some time in the fifth-to-fourth centuries B.C.E., the conflict motif with other deities is quite nuanced.
Note also that in Gen 1:3 God "hovers" (or more appropriately "broods") over the "face of the waters." This is from other ANE literature a picture of dominance and triumph (cf. U. I.108:8), and in the previous clause there is a parallel equation between the "waters" (המים) and "the deep" (תהום). This last word, pronounced tehum, is highly significant, as it seems most likely to be a masculinised Hebraisation of the name of the Akkadian sea goddess Tiamat, whom Marduk slays and from whose remains he forms the cosmos (cf. Enamu Elish).
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Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls
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Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
