[News] Upd: Drouin decides to sit out until trade is completed. Lightning suspend him.

[killer_carlson]

Replace Granlund with Backlund in that trade proposal and it's much better.

[Harry Lime]

Tampa has been very consistent in saying that they want one or two NHL capable bodies coming back. Unlikely that a prospect will be the center of any trade, unless they are right at the edge of an NHL call-up. Maybe a Granlund/Kulak/Andersson package, but then I begin to wonder if there are better offers out there. Probably.

Prospects that are not capable of playing this year will be a value add-on to any trade.

[868904]

Originally Posted by David Struch

How about this...

Markus Granlund ($767,500)
+ Emile Poirier/Mark Jankowski/Morgan Klimchuk
+ Brandon Hickey/Oliver Kylington/Rasmus Andersson

I've been thinking along the same lines but I think the Lightning need more of a sure thing than Granlund:

Backlund
Poirier
+ Hickey/Kylington/ANdersson

I think Backlund would have greater appeal to the Lightning as he is an established youngish type player under control. He's not really a top 6 forward but he can complement high end players and he's also very responsible defensively. He has a real Detroit Red Wings vibe to him which I think may appeal to Yzerman.

I think moving Backlund also makes a lot of sense from the Flames standpoint as there are cheaper options to replace him in his role. I'm not saying that any of those options are better at this point than Backlund, but the likes of Granlund, Grant, Arnold, Elson, Jankowski are all players who you could conceivably see replacing Backlund's role as a bottom 6 centre in the near and long term future.

Poirier is the B type prospect that may give the Lightning some potential. Treliving would really have to sell Yzerman on his potential and you have to hope that the Lightning scouts liked Poirier in his draft and draft plus years. Despite Poirier's struggles this year, he is still a better prospect than Jankowski and Klimchuk. Plus Jankowski is not a controlled asset (he could go UFA) which decreases his appeal to any team.

The defense prospect part is really a sweetner.

The fact is that in these proposals, the best player is potentially Drouin, so if the Flames are going to make the deal, they have to provide the Lightning with a "sure thing" which is Backlund and "potential" which is Poirier and one of the young defensemen. Poirier's potential alone is not enough which is why you need the extra defense prospect. The reality is that not all 3 of these defense prospects are going to make it. It'll be up to the Flames to make sure they keep the right ones.

I think value wise, this is the type of deal that is fair for both teams. Not sure what the teams think of the assets in each deal. This is as far as the Flames should give up though, they can't touch the core (Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, Hamilton, Brodie).

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Tampa has been very consistent in saying that they want one or two NHL capable bodies coming back. Unlikely that a prospect will be the center of any trade, unless they are right at the edge of an NHL call-up. Maybe a Granlund/Kulak/Andersson package, but then I begin to wonder if there are better offers out there. Probably.

Prospects that are not capable of playing this year will be a value add-on to any trade.

Tampa has been consistent saying they want a player they can control for several years coming back which could be a prospect. Not sure where they said they need 1-2 current NHLers coming back ?

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I'm willing to bet that Steve Y is going to end up taking a deal that's fair or leans more in favor of the other team.

And thats the million dollar question... what's fair?

[djsFlames]

Get er done Gandalf...er I mean Treliving.

As far as prospects that the Flames could offer go, I think any team would see Jankowski as very enticing. Looking to break into the league next year. Seasoned and developed in the NCAA. Size, skill, center.

But I dunno. I feel like the Flames have come too far with him not to keep him.

Whatever happens, I think Drouin is dealt for a lesser return than people are speculating.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Get er done Gandalf...er I mean Treliving.

As far as prospects that the Flames could offer go, I think any team would see Jankowski as very enticing. Looking to break into the league next year. Seasoned and developed in the NCAA. Size, skill, center.

But I dunno. I feel like the Flames have come too far with him not to keep him.

Whatever happens, I think Drouin is dealt for a lesser return than people are speculating.

I think any team would be very cautious in dealing for Janks because of the college loophole. If I am Yzerman I am not trading my best young prospect for a guy that could just walk away and sign elsewhere.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

And thats the million dollar question... what's fair?

I think some of the offers being thrown around lately are a little more realistic. Fabri and maybe a late pick would be decent, Dumba for Drouin (not Brodin), a package from the Flames of Backlund+Hickey+Klimchuck (or comparables) but I don't see a team giving up a first or a high prospect for him.

[LChoy]

Sorry if this was already addressed, but is there a reason why Drouin hasn't already made the Lightning team? If he is such a valuable prospect and commands such a return, why would the Lightning even let him go, or allowed the relationship to deteriorated to the point that he has asked for a trade? Is it because Tampa's top 6 is set?


LChoy

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Lchoy

Sorry if this was already addressed, but is there a reason why Drouin hasn't already made the Lightning team? If he is such a valuable prospect and commands such a return, why would the Lightning even let him go, or allowed the relationship to deteriorated to the point that he has asked for a trade? Is it because Tampa's top 6 is set?


LChoy

A number of observers and fans believe this precisely: that TB is too deep in their top nine to accommodate Drouin.

Of course, that explanation is more difficult to accept, given TB's offensive struggles this season, and Drouin's less than dominant performance in the AHL since his dispatch to Syracuse.

[Vinny01]

Friedman on the FAN thinks it is Nashville, St.Louis, Anaheim that are the 3 teams that might make the deal today if it does happen

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

True but there are a ton of question marks on all the Flames assets going the other way. None of those players are proven. Granlund is playing in the NHL but not doing much. The prospects are good but both Porier and Jankowski are older than Drouin and have done less. The D prospects have not done much either.

It is a lot to give up in terms of youth but getting a top 3 pick by giving up a late 1st, a 2nd and a 3rd is pretty good value for the Flames

This mentality of we're getting back a top 3 pick is just so much bull#### it is beyond belief. Nail Yakupov as drafted 1st over all, so do you think he is still worth a player drafted at that same level? Not a chance. Drouin has not lived up to expectations and is not worth three good players.

To me you have to approach this by weighing out potential and trajectory. Drouin holds a lot of potential. Unfortunately his trajectory is not going in a positive direction and he is unlikely to attain the expctations lumped on him as a 3rd over all draft pick. His play, since he was drafted, has plateaued of headed south of what was hoped. He has become a high risk player because of that. Add in his demand for a trade and the risk becomes that much higher.

Conversely you are suggesting the Flames give up three players to acquire Drouin. Most of those players have positive trajectories; finding positives in their games that would lead you to believe they could exceed expectations placed on them at the draft. I don't move players that are showing positive trends unless you get a player back also trending in positive direction. I wouldn't mind moving some of our depth, but only form where that look like they are going to be a player. Drouin has me concerned that he may not be the player everyone once thought he would be.

Another way to look at this is to consider where Drouin would fit on this team. He's likely to be a 2nd line LW on the Flames. Do you honestly give up three players to get a possible 2nd line player? Especially when some of those players hold the same potential? That is just a bad trade. Unless you are getting back a sure thing, which Drouin is definitely not, you do not throw away three assets that meet or have potential to play at the same level. That is a mistak that hurts rebuilding teams.

[loob job]

St. Louis definitely seems to be the front runner, I could also see the Wild as a good fit. Don't count the Habs out though. They have young assets that could be available to acquire him, bring him back to his home province. No one has mentioned them but I think that is a perfect fit.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by loob job

St. Louis definitely seems to be the front runner, I could also see the Wild as a good fit. Don't count the Habs out though. They have young assets that could be available to acquire him, bring him back to his home province. No one has mentioned them but I think that is a perfect fit.

Except that it has been reported Yzerman would prefer to trade him to the west.

It sounds like an Eastern team would have to pay a premium compared to Western teams for Yzerman.

[Split98]

Now, this is NOT meant to be taken as "I think Drouin is just X player"

But is Drouin's minor-league talent and excitement not akin to what Rob Schremp brought to the table? He had all the skills in the world to get people excited about game-changing potential, and nothing happened.

Now, to re-iterate, I'm NOT saying Drouin is just Schremp in less ugly clothing. Just offering that Drouin has, at this point, shown as much as Schremp had. How silly would you look if Tobias Enstrom or Erik Karlsson ++ were traded for Schremp?

I don't think that the return on Drouin is going to be that ground-shaking. Likely a prospect that has yet to turn the corner or a vet + a prospect on the way.

Think more Granlund+Poirier

I think we are all undervaluing Backlund considerably by the way. He has a role that will be very difficult to replace with the intelligence he brings to it. Very versatile and reliable. Arnold is not going to simply step into that role.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by New Era

This mentality of we're getting back a top 3 pick is just so much bull#### it is beyond belief. Nail Yakupov as drafted 1st over all, so do you think he is still worth a player drafted at that same level? Not a chance. Drouin has not lived up to expectations and is not worth three good players.

To me you have to approach this by weighing out potential and trajectory. Drouin holds a lot of potential. Unfortunately his trajectory is not going in a positive direction and he is unlikely to attain the expctations lumped on him as a 3rd over all draft pick. His play, since he was drafted, has plateaued of headed south of what was hoped. He has become a high risk player because of that. Add in his demand for a trade and the risk becomes that much higher.

Conversely you are suggesting the Flames give up three players to acquire Drouin. Most of those players have positive trajectories; finding positives in their games that would lead you to believe they could exceed expectations placed on them at the draft. I don't move players that are showing positive trends unless you get allayed back also trending in positive direction. I wouldn't mind moving some of our depth, but only form where that look like they are going to be a player. Drouin has me concerned that he may not be the player everyone once thought he would be.

Another way to look at this is to consider where Drouin would fit on this team. He's likely to be a 2nd line LW on the Flames. Do you honestly give up three players to get a possible 2nd line player? Especially when some of those players hold the same potential? That is just a bad trade. Unless you are getting back a sure thing, which Drouin is definitely not, you do not throw away three assets that meet or have potential to play at the same level. That is a mistak that hurts rebuilding teams.

We have to agree to disagree. You think I over value Drouin and I think you over rate all the Flames players. I think Drouin has the ability to be a first liner but would slot behind Johnny. I think both Monahan and Bennett can be #1 centers but one will be #2 on our team. If the Flames have 2/3 of 2 first lines then they will be a very hard team to match up against.

I don't think Granlund, Jankowski/Porier, Hickey/Kylington are a sure bet to even be NHL players. Granlund is invisible, Jankowski is finally putting up ppg numbers 4 years after we drafted him and could easily be Colborne 2.0 I think it is extremely unlikely he becomes a top 2 centre. Kylington is still so raw while he skates amazingly his D zone play needs several years work.

I see Drouin as a player that slots into this team thst desperately needs too 6 wingers and helps them today and in the future. He is a .44ppg in the NHL and did that playing bottom 2 lines on the deepest forward group in the league. He isn't meshing with the coach so maybe coming to a new team he takes off? It is a risk I would be fine with Treliving making.

[Poe969]

I've said this in other threads but I'll say it here too. I included Backlund in this trade and I'm open about why I think they should trade him and it's not because he isn't good. He is good but we're going to have to give up something good to get something good. I'm willing to bet that when Drouin is traded, it'll be for a lot less than some say but more than just 2 prospects/players like Grandlund and Poirier. I think Backlund is good and I think he'd do well in Tampa but I think Drouin would add some much needed offense to the Flames which they desperately need. A guy like Arnold or Grant could make the jump and step in for Backlund but likely wouldn't be as good as him but getting Drouin would more than make up for the loss of Backlund. The Flames seem to have more bottom 6 guys and lack top 6 guys so trading from our "position of strength" would mean giving up a guy like Backlund.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Lchoy

Sorry if this was already addressed, but is there a reason why Drouin hasn't already made the Lightning team? If he is such a valuable prospect and commands such a return, why would the Lightning even let him go, or allowed the relationship to deteriorated to the point that he has asked for a trade? Is it because Tampa's top 6 is set?


LChoy

I think part of it is Jon Cooper. Seems like him and Drouin may have bumped heads a bit, similar to Cooper and Stamkos. Player feeling under utilized. I think sometimes players just need a fresh start and kind of get frustrated in an organization for whatever reason. I'm sure Columbus would have loved for things to work out with Johansen but they didn't. Similar to Turris in Phoenix. Even Sven in Calgary. These things seems to happen semi regularly in the league. I guess ultimately not all relationships work out. I suppose time will tell who is right. Were the Lightning holding Drouin back or was he just not ready for the NHL?

[Split98]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I've said this in other threads but I'll say it here too. I included Backlund in this trade and I'm open about why I think they should trade him and it's not because he isn't good. He is good but we're going to have to give up something good to get something good. I'm willing to bet that when Drouin is traded, it'll be for a lot less than some say but more than just 2 prospects/players like Grandlund and Poirier. I think Backlund is good and I think he'd do well in Tampa but I think Drouin would add some much needed offense to the Flames which they desperately need. A guy like Arnold or Grant could make the jump and step in for Backlund but likely wouldn't be as good as him but getting Drouin would more than make up for the loss of Backlund. The Flames seem to have more bottom 6 guys and lack top 6 guys so trading from our "position of strength" would mean giving up a guy like Backlund.

I don't think he would though. Unless Drouin immediately starts producing with Bennett, we will have an immediate defensive loss in Backlund. I like Arnold and Grant quite a bit, but against Backlund they'll be dominated.

Maybe more than Granlund+Poirier for sure. I just can't think of what package TB will want, and we should be willing to give up beyond that.

[FeyWest]

Originally Posted by 868904

I've been thinking along the same lines but I think the Lightning need more of a sure thing than Granlund:

Backlund
Poirier
+ Hickey/Kylington/ANdersson

...

Although I do agree with this sentiment that this would be a reasonable value trade, I don't do it if Poirier, Hickey, Kylington, or Anderson are involved. Poirier is our only RW prospect I have high hopes for, Hickey is a dark horse I think will really surprise much like TJ Brodie did, and both Kylington and Andersson we just drafted and are looking to be great picks. Also don't forget, even though Kylington wasn't drafted in the first round he was projected to be top 1st round pick and think we were really really lucky to nab him at 60.

I'd be comfortable with a Backlund + [TSpoon + Klimchuk] or [Granlund + Agostino] but whether it is reasonable its probably a little light. I just dont feel comfortable breaking the bank for another LW even if he MIGHT make it or not and basically be a TB version of Sven.