[Trade] Blue Jackets trade Ryan Johansen to Predators for Seth Jones

[savemedrzaius]

This is a trade that makes so much sense for both teams but never happens anymore in the NHL.

[agubuan]

Originally Posted by devo22

Joe Morrow too.

Brendan Morrow was traded for Joe Morrow. Another Winterhawk for Winterhawk trade.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by saillias

Reminder: This happened less than 24 hours after this play: https://gfycat.com/NegligibleBlackandwhiteArmedcrab



Who says his production will drop? Maybe he'll get easier competition now.

What is Johansen doing here? Those are some Black Sox level shenanigans.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by 1_Flames_Fan

Probably could have gotten Johansen for Brodie. Not that I would ever consider that.

The list of players you couldn't get for Brodie is very very small.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I think Columbus wins here today - they got rid of a distraction, and the return was what I consider to be a franchise player. That is a home-run for them.

Johansen has rumored attitude issues, problems with his fitness, and has had issues with his health. Nashville takes the risk here, though they traded from an incredible position of strength there.

If Johansen doesn't have the rumored attitude issues (or just gets a fresh start and they go away), and as long as he stays healthy, then this trade is a win-win-lose-lose. Lose lose?? Who are they?

Edmonton Oilers lost. Acquire a big, talented top center for their top 6? Acquire a franchise #1 defencemen at the age of 21? Nope - losers.

Ryan Nugent-Hopkins - as soon as this was announced, RNH started shedding some tears. There is no hope of escape for him.

[N-E-B]

I think Columbus probably wins this trade in the long run, but both teams will benefit. So Nashville didn't lose this trade, per say, but they won it less.

[StrykerSteve]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

What is Johansen doing here? Those are some Black Sox level shenanigans.

He expected Granlund to pull it back and he was going to intercept it so he could drive possession up the ice. As they only had 15 seconds left to tie it up, it would have been a smart play if it had worked.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Regorium

My basis is that he is sheltered in Nashville. Even with the vast majority of his starts in the offensive zone, he still only put up 25 points.

I just want to point out that Zone Starts are a useless stat which give no help in evaluating either a player's strengths or weaknesses or even give the slightest bit of insight into how a team uses a player - which is exactly what the stat purports to show.

If you compare Jones' Game Logs from NHL.com
http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id...52016&view=log

To his faceoff stats (All situations) from War-on-Ice
http://war-on-ice.com/playerseason.h...me1=Seth0Jones

You'll find that, on average, Jones has about 25 shifts a game, but the number which begin with a faceoff fluctuates wildly from 6 to 20. As Neutral Zone faceoffs count as essentially nothing in the Zone Start stat, the percentage of a player's actual shifts which are being considered in the stat is around 40% of their total shifts. You also end up with some screwy numbers distorting the final product.

For example, Jones "Most Sheltered Night" of this season came on December 7th against Boston, when he had a ZSO% of 100%, wow... crazy sheltered use right? Well, actually, Jones played 24 shifts that night for 19:35 of playing time.
Of those 24 shifts, he started 5 in the O-zone, 2 in the N-zone, and 0 in the D-zone, at 5-on-5, Score Adjusted, Nashville won 3-2 and Jones finished with a relatively empty stat sheet: 2 shots, nothing else to speak of. But then, if you go look at the shift chart for the game:
http://www.nhl.com/stats/shiftcharts?id=2015020405
You'll see Jones getting regular 5v5 shifts through the 2nd and 3rd periods, including a key 1:20 shift from 57:40-58:59 of the 3rd after Nashville scored the go-ahead-goal.

If Jones is being 'sheltered' by his coach, what's he doing on the ice at such a key defensive moment of the game? Up by one with less than 3-minutes to play? Sounds like exactly the wrong time to throw out your 'sheltered' guy. Except ZSO% doesn't tell us who's being sheltered. It, in fact, tells us pretty much nothing about the game of hockey. It's about as useful as +/- or GAA. Probably less.

I am a huge, huge believer in "advanced" stats and really quite enjoy them, but I hate Zone-Starts. It is far and away the worst of the new stats being tracked and is so wildly unhelpful to the point that it is essentially deliberately misleading.

Any argument made using Zone-Starts as support can be considered automatically wrong. Zone-Starts are the loosest butthole.

[heep223]

Thanks for the use of 'loosest butthole'.

[Regorium]

Here's my issue with your response. You literally took the one sentence in my entire post that you disagreed with, drew the conclusion that that was my entire argument, and then formulated a defense against it.

What about his poor offensive production even with quality offence minutes?
What about his deployment against 3rd pairing level quality of competition?

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...34+45+46+63+67

While I appreciate your lecture on Zone starts, I don't agree with your example. The 57:40-58:59 shift was 50% against the 4th line of Boston (just so you don't key in on this one line in my entire post, I have no idea what line Randall-Ferraro-Vatrano is, but we can agree it's not the top competition) when their top guns were taking a breather, and 50% against the top line of Boston.

Just prior to the shift that you were talking about, Ekholm/Ellis played 1:30 against the top line of the Bruins. Just after the shift you highlighted, Weber/Josi played the final 1:01 against the top line of the Bruins.

Of the three pairings, in the last 5 minutes of the game, it's very clear to me that Jones/Jackman were the sheltered pair of the three.

Do you have another metric to show whether a guy is "sheltered"?

Edit: Just to re-calibrate what we're arguing. My point is that I think that Columbus overpaid to get Jones. Johansen has far more value, because he's a proven #1C. Jones is an excellent prospect, but hasn't shown anything at the NHL level other than the fact that he can easily play defence on the 2nd and 3rd pairings. I see his current level as a #3/4, with a high potential as #2 defencemen. I see a lot of "he's a top pairing defender" or "future superstar" in this thread, and I just don't see it, especially when I compare to someone like Ekblad. I believe that Jones has value closer to the RNH type (which is why I argued for that trade in E=NG), but clearly Johansen is much higher value, and Nashville did well to maximize their return.

[sureLoss]

Preds lines at practice for those interested in how they plan on using him:

Wilson-Johansen-Neal
Forsberg-Ribeiro-Jarnkrok
Salomaki-Fisher-Smith
Nystrom-Gaustad-Watson
Bourque-Hodgson-Arvidsson

[Dajazz]

Both players should be thrilled.

Neither ended up in Edmonton.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

I'd put him with Forsberg personally. They still need another winger to balance things out. I wonder if they would be interested in Hudler?

[JJ1532]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

I'd put him with Forsberg personally. They still need another winger to balance things out. I wonder if they would be interested in Hudler?

Could be on to something there. They've got the cap space to fit him in. They are also clearly happy to part with prospects and picks to improve themselves. Plus Poile can make some silly trades at times. A first rounder for Cody Franson and Mike Santorelli anyone?

[sureLoss]

That must rarely happen:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BAP-aqNgMe-/

Jones and Johansen run into each other at Columbus airport last night. Jones just arrived in Columbus and Johansen was waiting for his flight to Nashville.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

That must rarely happen:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BAP-aqNgMe-/

Jones and Johansen run into each other at Columbus airport last night. Jones just arrived in Columbus and Johansen was waiting for his flight to Nashville.

Too bad they didn't share a windmill high five as they passed one another.

[Gaudfather]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

That must rarely happen:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BAP-aqNgMe-/

Jones and Johansen run into each other at Columbus airport last night. Jones just arrived in Columbus and Johansen was waiting for his flight to Nashville.

That pretty cool especially given it was one for one real hockey trade!

[albertGQ]

Wasn't that an error? They both took private planes

[Gaudfather]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

Wasn't that an error? They both took private planes

They could have met in the private charter terminal. Doesn't seem to be many people around.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

Wasn't that an error? They both took private planes

It was previously reported they met at the Southwest terminal at the airport. They took private planes that was the mistake by Portzline.

The story comes straight from Johansen