[News] Flames have yet to start contract talks with David Jones

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by saillias

Stajan has 2 goals in the 2015-2016 season

You are sort of nitpicking at nothing for no reason.

The 2015-16 season isn't over yet, and we don't know how many goals he will have by the time it's over.

If that's nitpicking at nothing, then I guess it's OK for me to call Sidney Crosby a 9-goal scorer. As such, it's obvious that he's just a plug and Pittsburgh should buy him out. Right?

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by browna

David Jones was seriously underappreciated last year and especially in the playoffs. Ferland may had the spectacular hits, but Jones played a very physical game as well, and many of his physical plays and hard work resulted in goals (or near goals, what the Bennett "goal" vs Ana Game 3)

Doesn't mean you don't think of moving him or resigning him, but before we pull an Oiler fan and start crapping on players, give the guy his due credit. Given how soft and undersized and under physical this team is already (last two games are prime examples) losing more of that physicality rally can't occur with a similar replacement coming in.

Agreed, and in suggesting that the likes of Jones and Stajan can be easily by rookies ignores the prime directive of a bottom 6 player: First, Do No Harm.

The ability for Stajan and Jones to go out, eat up minutes, and simply not make stupid rookie mistakes that lead to goals against is an asset in and of itself, let alone their ability to chip in offensively, drive momentum, and dependably move up the roster if needed.

Bollig's role has been usurped by Ferland, and Raymond's by Granlund, but at least one, if not both, of Jones and Stajan should remain with the team until they are forced out by someone who can play that role better, which has not been proven yet.

[Flamefan1]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

I think there's a few guys that see the writing on the wall when it comes to their future with the team.

Jones
Backlund
Hudler
Wideman
Russell
Raymond

These guys have to have some sort of clue that their future isn't with the Flames and it shows, they're all kind of mailing it in. And that's why it will be a busy feb-july 1 for treliving. Lets get this roster to the next level and dump the passengers!

I agree with all but Backlund, and possibly Russell. I personally feel he is contributing more than many on the team. I think the line of Backlund, Ferland and Colbourne may be the best line the last few games. I like Hudler, but he has been very bad this season. I think he is either injured or suffering from a psychological problem from not knowing if he will be re-signed as it is well known he likes playing with the young Flames (or he has just gone downhill quickly). The biggest problem is Wideman and he needs to go - it would be great to see Nakladahl called up and sit Wideman for a few games. Wideman unfortunately has 0 trade value.

[blender]

For the record put me in the camp that doesn't want Jones back, but it is solely because he will be UFA and the Flames should be able to flip him for an asset.
I agree 100% with the posters who advocate the need for steady veterans in the lineup. Watching how the Kings and Ducks handled the Flames in the last two games should be a warning against simply bringing a bunch of prospects up from the farm. Players like Stajan and Jones are valuable to a rebuilding team, and it is wise to utilize them in the lineup until they are surpassed by depth or their contracts expire. That is Jones this season and Stajan next? (or is there another year?) Either way, the rebuild rolls on and hopefully our prospects develop properly.

[JiriHrdina]

The only way I'd bring back Jones is on an uber-cheap deal. Frankly I'd be happy if the Flames didn't sign any of their UFAs.
But I also don't anticipate they will net much of a return at the deadline. I bet Jones is worth something like a 4th/5th.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by blender

For the record put me in the camp that doesn't want Jones back, but it is solely because he will be UFA and the Flames should be able to flip him for an asset.
I agree 100% with the posters who advocate the need for steady veterans in the lineup. Watching how the Kings and Ducks handled the Flames in the last two games should be a warning against simply bringing a bunch of prospects up from the farm. Players like Stajan and Jones are valuable to a rebuilding team, and it is wise to utilize them in the lineup until they are surpassed by depth or their contracts expire. That is Jones this season and Stajan next? (or is there another year?) Either way, the rebuild rolls on and hopefully our prospects develop properly.

I agree with the keeping vets, stability however it's a little surprising the Flames have not brought up more guys to gain NHL experience or to push the merit system so we don't have passengers taking nights off. What worries me on the other hand is if they do bring guys up it not be to replace guys like Bennett.

Seriously why not see who we have that can step in and replace guys like Jones, Raymond and not wait until we are forced to do it out of necessity?

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

The only way I'd bring back Jones is on an uber-cheap deal. Frankly I'd be happy if the Flames didn't sign any of their UFAs.
But I also don't anticipate they will net much of a return at the deadline. I bet Jones is worth something like a 4th/5th.

Only UFA I'd sign would be Nakladal.

[StrykerSteve]

UFAs at end of season

David Jones RW
Jiri Hudler RW
Kris Russell D
Jonas Hiller G
Karri Ramo G

Underperforming guys that the Flames would likely look to move out.

Brandon Bollig LW
Mason Raymond LW
Dennis Wideman D

That's eight players who may not be here next season and 28M potentially off the books. Gives them room to re-sign Monahan and Gaudreau to new deals and replace players with younger, cheaper alternatives, without skipping much of a beat.

Has the potential to be a pretty significant offseason for the Flames.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

I truly hope it never starts.

Trade him and get something in return and find an cheaper internal replacement for what he is, a bottom 6 forward.

He's a middle 6 forward and who do we have to replace him internally?

Hint: No one.

I know people are hung up on the give the prospects a chance thing, but none of our prospects are proving they deserve a chance. All that is going to happen if Jones gets traded is Mason Raymond will play more.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

No, but telling obvious lies about it does not support the point of the original post.

Are you just looking to argue? It was pretty obvious he was saying Stajan has 2 goals on the season and he wouldn't miss those 2 goals. You're acting like you just uncovered some major conspiracy and the truth needs to come out.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Based on performance, none of the UFAs have deserved a contract. Don't sign them and promote from within. The UFAs should be moved ASAP and get the RFAs some playing time to decide if they are ready for a full time promotion.

[Poe969]

Promote from within or sign different UFA's. These guys aren't working out and there's the chance to gain assets by trading them

[heep223]

There is not much to promote from Stockton. The Flames need NHL players to play in the NHL hockey games.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

If you swapped out Jones/Stajan/Bollig/Raymond out for Shore/Poirier/Agostino/Arnold tomorrow, would there be any any real difference in the level of play? Only difference being a near 10 million dollar savings in what they're paid. That alone would account for the increase in pay for Gaudreau and Monahan.

I hear you. Key difference is probably inside the dressing room. Chemistry matters. Players love Stajan (as do a lot of fans). Bollig seems to be another glue guy. You start swapping out Stajan for Arnold (not saying arnold couldn't be an accretive personality in the room), then you are messing with chemistry. It's one of the biggest issues with columbus and edmonton.

[GranteedEV]

The reason they haven't talked to Jones has nothing to do with whether or not they like Jones and everything to do with "cap troubles incoming".

Expiring we have:
Hudler - 4.0M
Jones - 4.0M
Hiller - 4.5M
Colborne - 1.25M
Ramo - 3.7M
Russell - 2.6M
Giordano - (Negative 2.75M as his Extension Kicks In)
Current Cap Space - 2.2M
___________
19.5M to sign:
Gaudreau - Probably 7.5 M
Monahan - 6.75 M (though you guys known I've been pushing the "bridge Monahan for 4.5/2Y" train of thought)
NHL Starting Goalie - 4.0 M
1M Backup Goalie + Granlund/Wotherspoon/Jooris/Shore/Grant etc.

You've pretty much hit the cap ceiling right there with a little bit of play here and there

That alone leaves you with

Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland
Bennett-Backlund-Frolik
Bouma-Granlund-Jooris
Bollig-Stajan-Raymond
X
X

Brodie-Gio
Wideman-Hamilton
Smid-Engelland
X

Starting Goalie
Backup Goalie

It's not pretty, but that's all you can afford. Welcome to the Calgary Pennypinchers 2016-17. It's only one year though.

Bollig - 1.25M
Smid - 3.5M
Wideman - 5.25M
Raymond - 3.0M
Engelland - 2.9M
_______________
15.9M all frees up in 2017

Yes, there will be some other contracts at that time to potentially deal with (Bennett/Jankowski/Kulak/Culkin) but that's when the team can start looking at free agency to fill roster holes. Just have to suck it up until then.

[Dr. Doom]

Bottom line, this is really nothing to fret about.

Guys like Jones are a dime a dozen and to those who think he'll snag us a pick at the deadline, think again IMO...

We're better riding this one out to a sunset together and if we can get him cheap sure, if not oh wells.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

If you swapped out Jones/Stajan/Bollig/Raymond out for Shore/Poirier/Agostino/Arnold tomorrow, would there be any any real difference in the level of play? Only difference being a near 10 million dollar savings in what they're paid. That alone would account for the increase in pay for Gaudreau and Monahan.

Honestly - yes. At least when it comes to Stajan and Jones.
We all love prospects but it is naiive to assume that guys not exactly excelling at the NHL level can replace proven big leaguers.

[trublmaker]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

If you swapped out Jones/Stajan/Bollig/Raymond out for Shore/Poirier/Agostino/Arnold tomorrow, would there be any any real difference in the level of play? Only difference being a near 10 million dollar savings in what they're paid. That alone would account for the increase in pay for Gaudreau and Monahan.

the level of play would drop dramatically. our farm team is tied for 2nd last place in the A, you really think anyone on that team can play in the NHL? the grease farm team is 7 pts ahead of us, the grease!!, let that sink in if you think our kids on the farm are ready or not.

[dino7c]

Nobody in the minors could replace Stajan and Jones right now...its not all about stats

[Strange Brew]

Flames need to get better. 16th overall last year and as of today that's about the best they could hope for this year. A little disappointing given the additions in the off season and no real subtractions.

You can make for an argument for bringing Jones back on a cheap deal but at some point this team needs to make some changes. I think you get what you can for Jones and the other UFA's at the deadline when their value should be highest and then look to parlay some of those picks at the draft.

My concern is that none of the guys in the AHL seem to be knocking down the door to fill up the bottom spots. That is going to have to change soon for this team to improve.