12-17-2015, 01:13 PM
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#441
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Lifetime Suspension
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Good article that shows how laughable the arguments are against raising minimum wage.
I like the quote " nobody working a 40 hour work week should be living in poverty because of a low wage."
http://parklandinstitute.ca/blog/com...age_in_alberta
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12-17-2015, 01:13 PM
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#442
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polak
And so we're back to the idea that owning a small business is a god given right and that employees quality of life (not just Jims employees, but all employees that make minimum wage) should subsidize this right?
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Holy balls man. Its business not Feudalism.
If an employee doesnt want to work for minimum wage then they have to bring more to the table. You know who can unpack boxes and place them on shelves? Literally anyone.
The business owner owns the business, not the employees. If they're being grossly underpaid then they can go work elsewhere for what they feel is fair compensation and their family will not be held hostage, their women will not be raped nor will their huts be torched.
I find it strangely disconnected that so many of you put the cart before the horse.
"Wont someone please think about the employees!?!?!"
Well, they do. Employees are very important, but if the business cant make a go of it because legislation dictates that they have to pay the employees more than the value they provide then theres no employment to be had.
And the argument that 'the market will adapt and new businesses will step in and take over where the old business failed' doesnt hold when the factors that caused the old business to fail in that industry segment to begin with, legislation, remain in place.
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12-17-2015, 01:14 PM
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#443
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Salmon with Arms
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As somebody with 20 years in retail, both big box and small, I can tell you that wages as a % of sales shrinks as the retail chain gets bigger.
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12-17-2015, 01:14 PM
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#444
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Looooooooooooooch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PsYcNeT
Man Canada is so full of liberals.
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12-17-2015, 01:17 PM
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#445
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Toledo OH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polak
I'm still shaking my head at the notion that "I pay my employees as little as possible" is an acceptable differentiation for a business to cling to.
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The key to running a successful business that competes on price is paying as little as possible for all the implements into their product or service, including labor.
Last edited by Cowboy89; 12-17-2015 at 01:20 PM.
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12-17-2015, 01:23 PM
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#446
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis
Certainly the Mickie D's self-serve terminals are about saving costs to a degree, but it's more about the fact they struggle to find and retain staff. You obviously don't have to recruit or train a machine, and a machine will be loyal to you forever (or until Skynet goes online).
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Dammit. I never realized that SkyNet has already taken over!
They're going to kill us slowly through high-fat, high-cholesterol McDonald's meals! The machines have the patience!
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
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12-17-2015, 01:23 PM
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#447
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops
Good article that shows how laughable the arguments are against raising minimum wage.
I like the quote " nobody working a 40 hour work week should be living in poverty because of a low wage."
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To borrow from the arguments Polak and Psycnet are making, get a better job.
Seems to me that the employee in this case is as ####ty at what they do as Jim is at owning a hardware store.
Last edited by Resolute 14; 12-17-2015 at 01:29 PM.
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12-17-2015, 01:26 PM
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#448
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Victoria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
I'm sorry, but that sounds like and idealistic 'it'll all be okay, the Government will take care of me.'
You've taken an ideal, more money and benefits for less skilled, less valuable workers for social norms and placed that ideal above the reality of asking where this money is going to come from and what the consequences are going to be.
And the you've reconciled the prioritization of that ideal by expressing confidence that industry will adapt and normalize while ignoring the fact that it is attempting to do this with the Government fighting it tooth and nail.
More money for all, no matter the cost. 
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That's not even close to what I said. I pretty clearly said the positive normative gains should coincide with at minimum a net neutral effect on the job market and the economy. What I do reject is the notion that these effects can be measured over the short-term. Any change entails a period of adjustment that unlikely to be linear nor free of discomfort.
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12-17-2015, 01:28 PM
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#449
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maryland State House, Annapolis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
Dammit. I never realized that SkyNet has already taken over!
They're going to kill us slowly through high-fat, high-cholesterol McDonald's meals! The machines have the patience!
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Still probably better than eating the Burger King $1.99 "nuggets" (that you'll notice they never call "chicken nuggets".)
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"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
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12-17-2015, 01:30 PM
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#450
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Victoria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops
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I know, right? Having a shred of humanity and compassion for your fellow man! Buffoons!
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12-17-2015, 01:35 PM
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#451
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubecube
That's not even close to what I said. I pretty clearly said the positive normative gains should coincide with at minimum a net neutral effect on the job market and the economy. What I do reject is the notion that these effects can be measured over the short-term. Any change entails a period of adjustment that unlikely to be linear nor free of discomfort.
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Fair enough. I'll agree with that, where I disagree is that its going to have an equal net effect. While we may need to give it time, I dont think these have been intelligent and well thought out decisions on the part of our Government.
They strike me as the rash reactive decisions of a petulant child.
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The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
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12-17-2015, 01:37 PM
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#452
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubecube
I know, right? Having a shred of humanity and compassion for your fellow man! Buffoons!
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What? So just give people money in thanks for their existence?
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
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12-17-2015, 01:40 PM
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#453
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Victoria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
What? So just give people money in thanks for their existence?
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Well it clearly says "working" not existing. Whether you agree with the premise or not, mocking the sentiment is kind of gross.
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12-17-2015, 01:44 PM
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#454
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Victoria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
Fair enough. I'll agree with that, where I disagree is that its going to have an equal net effect. While we may need to give it time, I dont think these have been intelligent and well thought out decisions on the part of our Government.
They strike me as the rash reactive decisions of a petulant child.
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As with most things, climate change, drug policy, etc., I tend to put my trust in the opinions of the experts, so that's why I ultimately believe the net effect will be mostly neutral. I also think the fact that they're planning on holding off on it proves they're not being exceptionally rash about. Making it a part of their platform demonstrated their principles, and revising the roll-out demonstrates a measure of pragmatism.
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12-17-2015, 01:45 PM
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#455
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclops
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Heh, that fourth comment.
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12-17-2015, 01:48 PM
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#456
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubecube
That's not even close to what I said. I pretty clearly said the positive normative gains should coincide with at minimum a net neutral effect on the job market and the economy. What I do reject is the notion that these effects can be measured over the short-term. Any change entails a period of adjustment that unlikely to be linear nor free of discomfort.
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Telling the person who just got laid off that "in the long term you'll be better off with a higher minimum wage" doesn't put food on their table next week.
Telling them that this is just a "period of adjustment" doesn't help them pay rent.
Economic theories and fancy rhetoric don't mean a whole hell of a lot to people just trying to get by.
Will a higher minimum wage ultimately improve things for marginal workers? Maybe. The results are not clear one way or the other. Which is why the NDP is backtracking. Yet again.
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12-17-2015, 01:48 PM
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#457
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Marseilles Of The Prairies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chemgear
Heh, that fourth comment.
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Goddamn savage.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm
Settle down there, Temple Grandin.
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12-17-2015, 01:49 PM
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#458
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Franchise Player
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yeah, he blew that guy up
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
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12-17-2015, 01:49 PM
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#459
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubecube
Well it clearly says "working" not existing. Whether you agree with the premise or not, mocking the sentiment is kind of gross.
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But the point is that you just want to give them more money. Sure, for work, but I've been over this a million times.
Its a strangely capitalist solution to a socialist problem.
"They're not doing well."
"Have you tried throwing money at them?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubecube
As with most things, climate change, drug policy, etc., I tend to put my trust in the opinions of the experts, so that's why I ultimately believe the net effect will be mostly neutral. I also think the fact that they're planning on holding off on it proves they're not being exceptionally rash about. Making it a part of their platform demonstrated their principles, and revising the roll-out demonstrates a measure of pragmatism.
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But then did they not say the very next day that they're not holding off on it?
__________________
The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
The World Ends when you're dead. Until then, you've got more punishment in store. - Flames Fans
If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
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12-17-2015, 01:54 PM
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#460
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Franchise Player
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Small business owners are not entitled to turn a profit. And most do fail. But what is being missed here is how important a healthy small business sector is to a strong economy. They can spin up new jobs and exploit innovation faster than big companies. Small business is also a key avenue of advancement for aspirational immigrants. That's one of the reasons North America is much more successful at assimilating and advancing immigrants than Europe, where hiring and firing is much more onerous, and where chronically high unemployment of youth and immigrants is widespread.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
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