May 2015 Provincial Election Thread v2

[Smartcar]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...ill6-1.3368376

On Monday, Hotchkiss notified his customers that 2016 will be his last year in business. Come October, he'll hang up his gloves, clean out his sheds and greenhouses, and hold an auction. He cites the provincial NDP government's contentious Bill 6 as the primary reason.

The farm and ranch workplace legislation has already provoked considerable opposition from the agricultural industry over the extension of Worker's Compensation Board and Occupational Health and Safety coverage.

But the province's greenhouse operators have different concerns. In their labour intensive industry, employers fear that the bill will extend employment standards that will require them to pay staff overtime, vacation pay and statutory holiday pay — rules from which they are currently exempt.

Interesting. I had no idea commercial greenhouse operators got the same exemption as farms and ranches.

[username]

Originally Posted by Smartcar

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...ill6-1.3368376


Interesting. I had no idea commercial greenhouse operators got the same exemption as farms and ranches.

Strange, who would have thought that a higher minimum wage, a higher carbon tax and a bill like this would ruin small businesses.

No one saw this coming...........

[PsYcNeT]

How horrible that they must pay workers overtime, vacation pay, and stat pay. What a goddamn shame.

Guess he was so terrible at business that paying something that literally everyone else pays to their employees makes his company dip into the red. That's the free market for yah.

[username]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

How horrible that they must pay workers overtime, vacation pay, and stat pay. What a goddamn shame.

No, you know what's a shame? That that those poor employees now have no job as opposed to a job without benefits that they've NEVER had in the past.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

How horrible that they must pay workers overtime, vacation pay, and stat pay. What a goddamn shame.

Guess he was so terrible at business that paying something that literally everyone else pays to their employees makes his company dip into the red. That's the free market for yah.

Well tbh agriculture isn't quite the same as a manufacturing job. Agriculture often has peak seasons (obviously) where the hours get horrendous, and it is part of the job that you take on these hours. Paying overtime is a huge shift. There was a reason these jobs have been exempt.

I, and pretty much every other professional are also exempt from OT, you don't hear us complaining or that our businesses are shafting us.

And part of it is also the other changes, like the $1.36/GJ carbon tax. Imagine how much gas these guys burn heating their greenhouses all year.

[Smartcar]

Stat pay and vacation pay is one thing, but businesses don't have to pay overtime if they get an agreement from their employees to get paid time off instead of overtime pay per sec 23 of the Employment Standards Code:

23(1) An employee or the majority of a group of employees may enter into an overtime agreement
(a) as part of a collective agreement, or
(b) if there is no collective agreement, in a written agreement between the employee or group of employees and the employer,
that provides that, wholly or partly instead of overtime pay, the employer will provide, and the employee or group of employees will take, time off with pay instead of overtime pay.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Well tbh agriculture isn't quite the same as a manufacturing job. Agriculture often has peak seasons (obviously) where the hours get horrendous, and it is part of the job that you take on these hours. Paying overtime is a huge shift. There was a reason these jobs have been exempt.

I, and pretty much every other professional are also exempt from OT, you don't hear us complaining or that our businesses are shafting us.

And part of it is also the other changes, like the $1.36/GJ carbon tax. Imagine how much gas these guys burn heating their greenhouses all year.

Yes because I was comparing a greenhouse labourer to a salaried office worker.

Sending emails and compiling excel spreadsheets doesn't deserve OT, particularly (outside of meetings that last for goddamn ever) because most office work can be done at your own pace, so usually most OT is self-induced or deadline related.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by username

No, you know what's a shame? That that those poor employees now have no job as opposed to a job without benefits that they've NEVER had in the past.

Why does the NDP hate job creators?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Yes because I was comparing a greenhouse labourer to a salaried office worker.

Sending emails and compiling excel spreadsheets doesn't deserve OT, particularly (outside of meetings that last for goddamn ever) because most office work can be done at your own pace, so usually most OT is self-induced or deadline related.

Wouldnt be the first time.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Locke

Wouldnt be the first time.

Touche!

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

How horrible that they must pay workers overtime, vacation pay, and stat pay. What a goddamn shame.

Guess he was so terrible at business that paying something that literally everyone else pays to their employees makes his company dip into the red. That's the free market for yah.

mmmm..don't disagree in principle but...some things aren't the same

Guess I'll be buying my produce from California, South America and Mexico which even though it needs to burn lots of carbon to get here, should be cheaper because it isn't subject to a carbon tax ect...

lowering our carbon imprint one tax at a time - thanks NDP

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

How horrible that they must pay workers overtime, vacation pay, and stat pay. What a goddamn shame.

Guess he was so terrible at business that paying something that literally everyone else pays to their employees makes his company dip into the red. That's the free market for yah.

unfortunately, I guess you could say the same thing for all the people in the layoff thread. That they're such bad engineers, geologists, accountants, etc. that they can't hack it in this province for a decent wage let alone a job. That's the free market for yah.

[chemgear]

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...overnment-note

An internal government document shows the NDP administration can’t currently evaluate the impact of its plan to raise Alberta’s minimum wage to $15 per hour by 2018 and that “significant job loss” could be a “realistic possibility.”

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by chemgear

unfortunately, I guess you could say the same thing for all the people in the layoff thread. That they're such bad engineers, geologists, accountants, etc. that they can't hack it in this province for a decent wage let alone a job. That's the free market for yah.

Well, they are employees/contractors, not an employer. That said, there's a good chance if you are in the first round of layoffs, you aren't the best at your position (it should go without saying though, that social politics, tenure, wage vs output/cost vs benefit, etc. factor in to those decisions).

[Locke]

It has nothing to do with being 'bad at business.'

I'm always surprised at how people just fall back on that lazy excuse and feel that every industry should fall under the same rules.

This grower has to compete against produce shipped in from Mexico and California, places with dramatically lower labour costs, in exchange however they have shipping costs.

But the key is 'compete.'

The Government is raising his labour costs significantly as well as raising his heating costs, probably his business' two major cost-centres.

So what can he do? What is in his control? Hes being drowned in legislation, all he can do is try and market his produce as 'superior quality' and raise his prices. He, someone who has been in the industry 23 years, knows that this isnt going to work because cost vs quality decisions in terms of produce are not going to work out in his favour. He simply will not be able to compete anymore due to circumstances outside of his sphere of influence.

And that is the Government's fault.

He states that he paid $900K in wages last year and that the new legislation would bump his labour costs to $1.2M.

Thats $300K. Not including his estimates that his heating costs are going to double.

Considering the profit margins on produce I dont doubt his estimate that hes lost all profitability due to cost circumstances that are completely beyond his control and price circumstances that are beyond his control.

But yeah, because the Government raised his costs and he cant force people at gunpoint to overpay for tomatoes hes a crap businessman. Thats it.

[chemgear]

I would also suggest that's easier and perhaps empowering to some people to say things like "You're a terrible business, you have a terrible business model, clearly you deserve to die" than to do the same to the people who are losing their jobs.

It's a freebie opportunity to "stick it to the man".

I'd like to see the same people say the same stuff to the people laid off. It would only be consistent.

[CaptainCrunch]

This is federal and provincial. But Notley and Trudeau are now seeing that the Alberta Economic Collapse is an entirely bad thing.

With the NDP realization is starting to grip them that their environmental tax strategy is going to hurt the economy.

For the Feds, I think they suddenly realized that when they reach into Alberta and Saskatchewans pockets for equalization dough they're going to find a 5 year old condom and an IOU

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...nomic-meltdown

The federal government is said to be so worried about the economic situation in Alberta it is planning a high-level council of politicians and business leaders to address the contracting economy.
But action to counter the mass layoffs and investment pull-back in the oilsands may be hampered by Ottawa’s own plans to combat climate change.
The measures taken by Rachel Notley’s NDP provincial government are unlikely to be enough to meet the global goal agreed to last weekend at the Paris climate change conference, and further action would add costs to businesses that are already beleaguered by new regulations, a carbon tax and a cap on production.

[para transit fellow]

Originally Posted by username

No, you know what's a shame? That that those poor employees now have no job as opposed to a job without benefits that they've NEVER had in the past.

it's a shame that greenhouses currently have to rely on being able to pay below minimum wage to be profitable

[PsYcNeT]

NSFW!

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

it's a shame that greenhouses currently have to rely on being able to pay below minimum wage to be profitable

No, he needs it to be competitive with the Nicaraguans or something.

The government should allow that American Apparel ####### to hire child labour, since he's going out of business due to Asian manufacturers.

[nik-]

the sass