May 2015 Provincial Election Thread v2

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

There are pretty glaring industry reasons why Encana, Husky (do not play well with others), Harvest (too small), etc. were not involved.

The only real headscratchers left out were Transcanada, Plains, Imperial (Exxon), and Pembina.

Big time. Encana probably should have been included as well.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

It doesn't 'reek' of anything.

The Provincial Government wanted to implement new GHG regulations and they wanted a show among industry and NGOs that they supported these regulations. It brought them to the table and asked, what would you accept to publicly support this policy? The province then squared that with the climate change panel they put together. Et voila! Policy is made.

Had the province brought CAPP in they would have likely heard that CAPP didn't want these GHG regulations.

So what do you do? Do you not enact GHG policy because Imperial and EOG didn't want to enact GHG policy? Or do you narrow the circle among parties that wanted to see action and come up with something they could all support?

This is hardly a scandal or high-school clique politics. It's policy making at its most fundamental level. Tough decisions needed to be made after 15 years of tough decisions being avoided.

You're missing the most shocking part of the article for me:

Notley was only informed about the deal in the days leading to the climate change announcement.

It sounds like the big 4 got together with the NGOs a year ago and started hammering out a deal to cap emmissions in return for stopping the pipeline opposition. It does not sound like the Provincial government was at that table.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

You're missing the most shocking part of the article for me:



It sounds like the big 4 got together with the NGOs a year ago and started hammering out a deal to cap emmissions in return for stopping the pipeline opposition. It does not sound like the Provincial government was at that table.

Hmm, the language is somewhat ambiguous.

When I first read it, it read as if Notley was told of the agreement not necessarily that the provincial government didn't know the discussions were ongoing.

[burn_this_city]

The big 4 industry players were dreaming if they thought making a deal with NGOs would result in a change in perception of the industry.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/capt-tr...b_8685380.html

[Frequitude]

The real question is if they're dreaming thinking it gets them a pipeline. If it gets them a pipeline they probably don't give a hoot about perception.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

The real question is if they're dreaming thinking it gets them a pipeline. If it gets them a pipeline they probably don't give a hoot about perception.

This article suggests that's part of the endgame:

Notley is not only hoping to make an impression with foreign delegates, but also with other premiers who made the trip to Paris. Alberta's premier told reporters Tuesday she has made it clear to her counterparts that new pipelines are needed in Canada to export Alberta oil. With a new climate plan, she expects it will help alleviate concerns about the greenhouse gases produced by the province's oilsands.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...tone-1.3345308

[calculoso]

If this is true, it's a huge issue and extremely scummy

At the Okotoks Town Hall Meeting yesterday, after the meeting some of the Farmers cornered the Representatives speaking and wouldn’t let them go until they answered their questions, and what they learned was this bill once enacted it would take away the Land Owners right to have a say or refuse Wind Turbines or Solar Panels being placed on their land. (This is why she wants to ram it through without any amendments.)

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by calculoso

If this is true, it's a huge issue and extremely scummy

Where was this lifted from?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by calculoso

If this is true, it's a huge issue and extremely scummy

So she's following Wynne's strategy if its to be believed.

[Weitz]

Would that even be legal? Very greasy.

[CaptainCrunch]

I'd like to see and understand the source of this or see where in Bill 6 that becomes a possibility.

But I remember that a lot of people were upset in Ontario with these wind farms showing up without discussion.

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by calculoso

If this is true, it's a huge issue and extremely scummy

You need to post sources if your quoting something like that. This link covers the townhall and it reads as the farmers didn't want to listen to the minister....

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...mers-1.3347198

Agriculture Minister Oneil Carlier and Labour Minister Lori Sigurdson spent more than an hour speaking with the crowd, who gathered outside an Okotoks hotel in order to make room for everyone who showed up.

The crowd routinely booed and shouted down the ministers, and repeatedly chanted their demand to "kill the bill," at least until it can be addressed at committee with more formal input from industry member

[polak]

That's what happens when a group has no legitimate argument for their view besides "Whaaaaaaa"

[PsYcNeT]

No you see, it's good that someone can lose an arm on a farmsite with no furhter investigation because family businesses.

[northcrunk]

If they get really pissed I could see Manure being spread accross the leg. and in front of NDP MLAs offices.

[calculoso]

Like I said.. "If it's true"

The fact that the NDP is already proposing amendments to the bill shows that the bill as is right now is half-baked at best.
http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/ndp-gover...ll-6-1.2682577

On Monday, the provincial government suspended debate on the bill.
On Tuesday, a community meeting was held in Red Deer – Minister Oneil Carlier, Agriculture and Forestry Minister and Whitecourt-Ste. Anne MLA also attended, and he had an apology for those against the legislation.
“Our whole caucus, we are sorry,” Carlier said.
“We should have provided the details on how we plan to protect farm and ranch families.”
...
“We aren’t back-pedaling, it’s just that we were going to have all this in the regulations, because farmers and ranchers told us very loudly and clearly,” Sigurdson said

To PsYcNeT/polak: If you're so hell-bent on family farms being covered under these laws, what about the home handy man business? Want to renovate your home - make sure that you have WCB!

You guys are ridiculously blind in your support if you think there are no issues.

[Kerplunk]

Ya, who are these people, thinking that just because they live here, vote, and pay taxes that they can try to have their voices heard as the government rams through horribly undefined legislation.

Originally Posted by northcrunk

If they get really pissed I could see Manure being spread accross the leg. and in front of NDP MLAs offices.

I've seen a couple of Facebook posts linked by friends that suggest that if someone can supply the trucks, they have the payload....

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by calculoso

To PsYcNeT/polak: If you're so hell-bent on family farms being covered under these laws, what about the home handy man business? Want to renovate your home - make sure that you have WCB!

You guys are ridiculously blind in your support if you think there are no issues.

Any business that employs someone should be bound to WCB rules. Duh.

If you only employ yourself, then no, you shouldn't be bound to it.

Pretty simple, and literally every other province has those rules. Why is Alberta full of special baby snowflakes that stomp their feet and cry until they get their way?

[polak]

Originally Posted by calculoso

To PsYcNeT/polak: If you're so hell-bent on family farms being covered under these laws, what about the home handy man business? Want to renovate your home - make sure that you have WCB!

You guys are ridiculously blind in your support if you think there are no issues.

What are you talking about? Contractors are regulated heavily by OH&S.

Your argument is basically "Well if people who operate illegally can do it, we should too".

Solid. Just admit it. There is no reason that farms, of any size, should be exempt. Not a single one. You just want farmers to be treated like the special snowflakes they think they are.

[northcrunk]

To me this is precursor legislation to begin unionizing farm workers. I guess Notley's husband is in her ear after all.