Mass Shooting at Montreal College - Page 6 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

FireFly · 09-13-2006, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Happened in Taber. Can happen anywhere.

Oh, I agree, but in Taber, one kid died. It is not the same mass murder or attempted murder that has now happened twice in Montreal. Why hasn't this happened in Toronto with a much larger population or in Vancouver? Why has it happened twice in Montreal? There is cause and effect here. I'm not trying to take anything away from the families and friends of those who died, nor am I trying to pass the blame on someone else as no one else can pull a trigger for someone, but what is it about the city and culture that has caused this type of incident to happen twice? Just like American culture breeds higher amounts of crime, so too must something about the culture in Montreal breeding this type of crime.

Reggie Dunlop · 09-13-2006, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireFly

Oh, I agree, but in Taber, one kid died. It is not the same mass murder or attempted murder that has now happened twice in Montreal.

Why is it different than Taber? Kid ran into a high school and shot people. Exactly the same thing.

Reggie Dunlop · 09-13-2006, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philly06Cup

Likewise, there should be more concern for oft-ignored mental health concerns like depression and anger management, or whatever else it may be.

Agreed. And there was probably at some point in this person's life when he recieved help. Stuff like this just doesn't happen in a vacuum.

Kid didn't get the message or chose to ignore it. That's not society's fault.

FireFly · 09-13-2006, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Why is it different than Taber? Kid ran into a high school and shot people. Exactly the same thing.

Either 2 or 4 people doing it this time, the number of casualties. The fact that if the kid in Taber really wanted to, he likely could have killed or wounded more than he did.

Do we really know why these people decided to shoot others? We know for certain the Taber killer wsa picked on, but no one can verify if these kids were. The fact that this was a group effort period and not just one troubled kid... Much more meditation goes into it when you plan an attack with others.

moon · 09-13-2006, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philly06Cup

You have a very twisted way of justifying things. You're essentially saying if a social outcast was bullied, and later shoots the people who picked on him, those bullies were justified in their bullying because the guy was a psycho. That's like saying its okay to break a TV, because the TV is broken, because you broke it. Your justifications are circular and absurd. In the end no one wins.

If someone is bullied and can't take so they shoot innocent people then I have little sympathy for the loser who killed people. If they are bullied and kill people who didn't bully them, as it seems unlikely that everyone hurt in this school bullied this person, then I feel less sympathy for them.

Plenty of people are bullied/outcasts and they don't go out and shoot people. If this is the only way that they can deal with it then I have no sympathy for them at all.

If there are mental health issues then I am more sympathetic but it still doesn't make me feel sorry for a person who killed and injured ~20 , especially that they didn't know.

Super-Rye · 09-13-2006, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireFly

Oh, I agree, but in Taber, one kid died. It is not the same mass murder or attempted murder that has now happened twice in Montreal. Why hasn't this happened in Toronto with a much larger population or in Vancouver? Why has it happened twice in Montreal? There is cause and effect here. I'm not trying to take anything away from the families and friends of those who died, nor am I trying to pass the blame on someone else as no one else can pull a trigger for someone, but what is it about the city and culture that has caused this type of incident to happen twice? Just like American culture breeds higher amounts of crime, so too must something about the culture in Montreal breeding this type of crime.

When I was in montreal everyone seemed relaxed and laid back, for the most part everyone was super nice to me. A couple french people were snobby to me because I didn't speak any french, but for the most part everyone was very nice, understanding, and helpful. So I'm going out on a limb here and saying the fact this happened twice in Montreal and not in Tdot, Vancouver, Calgary, or any major city in Canada (Here's hoping it never does happen ever again) is coincidence and these 2 incidents doesn't reflect the culture or 99% the people out there. Just my opinion I've only been to Montreal twice (Was actually in Dawson school with a friend of mine, walking around waiting for some people we knew to get out of class in april '05) anyone who lives there or lived there may have a different opinion.

Reggie Dunlop · 09-13-2006, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireFly

Either 2 or 4 people doing it this time, the number of casualties. The fact that if the kid in Taber really wanted to, he likely could have killed or wounded more than he did.

Do we really know why these people decided to shoot others? We know for certain the Taber killer wsa picked on, but no one can verify if these kids were. The fact that this was a group effort period and not just one troubled kid... Much more meditation goes into it when you plan an attack with others.

Okay, I just looked at the latest update. I guess there is another suspect after all (thought that had been dismissed). Nonetheless, the Taber incident isn't any less tragic.

Azure · 09-13-2006, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Why is it different than Taber? Kid ran into a high school and shot people. Exactly the same thing.

Not as many people shot/injured/killed.

In the world without emotion, Taber wouldn't be considered as bad as this incident.

Reggie Dunlop · 09-13-2006, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure

Not as many people shot/injured/killed.

In the world without emotion, Taber wouldn't be considered as bad as this incident.

Well then maybe you should be the one to tell the parents of the Taber victim that their kid has been "downgraded" to a lesser tragedy status.

Philly06Cup · 09-13-2006, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

If someone is bullied and can't take so they shoot innocent people then I have little sympathy for the loser who killed people. If they are bullied and kill people who didn't bully them, as it seems unlikely that everyone hurt in this school bullied this person, then I feel less sympathy for them.

Plenty of people are bullied/outcasts and they don't go out and shoot people. If this is the only way that they can deal with it then I have no sympathy for them at all.

If there are mental health issues then I am more sympathetic but it still doesn't make me feel sorry for a person who killed and injured ~20 , especially that they didn't know.

Obviously there are mental health issues. Healthy normal people don't go out and shoot a bunch of innocent people. For some sick strange reason, they've decided to resort to mass-killing a lot of people. They warrant sympathy and require help for that. That's similar to being angry at a deaf person because he can't hear what you're saying, or picking on an autistic kid for stuttering. Mental issues are lilke a disease; people don't grow up choosing to fire guns at innocent people and then die in the process.

JiriHrdina · 09-13-2006, 08:22 PM

Are you really equating stuttering with killing someone?

pope04 · 09-13-2006, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philly06Cup

That's similar to being angry at a deaf person because he can't hear what you're saying, or picking on an autistic kid for stuttering.

Similar how?

Reggie Dunlop · 09-13-2006, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philly06Cup

Obviously there are mental health issues. Healthy normal people don't go out and shoot a bunch of innocent people. For some sick strange reason, they've decided to resort to mass-killing a lot of people. They warrant sympathy and require help for that. That's similar to being angry at a deaf person because he can't hear what you're saying, or picking on an autistic kid for stuttering. Mental issues are lilke a disease; people don't grow up choosing to fire guns at innocent people and then die in the process.

Guess what? Deaf kids get picked on. Stuttering kids get picked on. Wish it didn't happen, but it does.

I have tremendous sympathy for those who are mentally ill. If their mental illness is what drove them to commit such an act, then I guess mental illness is to blame.

If they made a conscious decision to go on a shooting rampage (despite whatever mental health issues they had) then I don't have any sympathy at all.

FireFly · 09-13-2006, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super-Rye

anyone who lives there or lived there may have a different opinion.

The two people I've talked to that live in Montreal both had the same response... "crazy French people"... I didn't ask further though.

Philly06Cup · 09-13-2006, 08:31 PM

I'm saying the murderous frame of mind this kid has is a illness, which should be treated and be sympathised with, just like someone who is autistic or deaf. I don't buy the argument that he freely chose to be a murderous rampant; there were some conditions that made him this way, and we should try to help our citizens who have illnesses, rather than just mock them and dismiss them as bogging down our society and entirely placing the blame on them.

Azure · 09-13-2006, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Well then maybe you should be the one to tell the parents of the Taber victim that their kid has been "downgraded" to a lesser tragedy status.

I've met the father of the Taber victim...had a long conversation with him.

I don't think either incident is worse then the other, but that assertion is most certainly going to be made.

FireFly · 09-13-2006, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Okay, I just looked at the latest update. I guess there is another suspect after all (thought that had been dismissed). Nonetheless, the Taber incident isn't any less tragic.

Not less tragic for the friends and family involved, except that there are more of them.

pope04 · 09-13-2006, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philly06Cup

I'm saying the murderous frame of mind this kid has is a illness, which should be treated and be sympathised with, just like someone who is autistic or deaf. I don't buy the argument that he freely chose to be a murderous rampant; there were some conditions that made him this way, and we should try to help our citizens who have illnesses, rather than just mock them and dismiss them as bogging down our society and entirely placing the blame on them.

Sorry, but how do you know all this?

flames_1987 · 09-13-2006, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevanGuy

Why? Because (as you posted earlier) "The people described as the shooters we're in all black, with mowhawks and numerous piercings"?

Just that leads you to believe the dude was a White Supremisist? I'm sorry but I find that totally ridiculous.

The school was described as being one of the most diverse schools in the world in terms of ethnic groups and religons. Trenchcoat, along with basically skinhead haircut, in his late 20's so not like he was attending the school and getting bullied. I geuss it's just a feeling I have.

By no means am I trying to sterotype, I have tons of friends who are punks and are some of the nicest guys around. I could be completley wrong, who knows

political renagade · 09-13-2006, 08:39 PM

Let me set this straight. I am not saying that i do not have sympothy for those who were injured or killed. It is important however to realize that this stuff is happening. We as a society need to try and figure out the underling reasons behind theses actions in order tpo prevent them from happening again.