First move of the season.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Unfortunately Treliving can't do that, he only has a Jack Adams winner working for him.

Being last year's Jack Adams winner means nothing this year.

[polak]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Unfortunately Treliving can't do that, he only has a Jack Adams winner working for him.

Sick. I won employee of the month last month. Guess I get to do #### all this month and fail miserably at my job and be the worst performer in the entire industry in almost every measurable category.

[Poe969]

Did you get a DQ cake? Cause if you didn't get the cake, you're done.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Flamescuprun2018

Would like another option to poll:

Mix up lines to accelerate youth/"core" development: Bennett at centre; Hamilton first pairing; Ferland second line; One young Stockton D man alternating at 5-6; Granlund and Jooris no fourth line.

Does putting Hamilton as the first pairing help or hurt?

He was first pairing for the first 6 games when Brodie was hurt and was a disaster. He got taken off the top pairing and was bad for another 5-6 games

His game has picked up to being able to handle the sheltered minutes.

Since the Flames have signed him for a long time they really want to make sure he does not melt down.

Having said that I would not be adverse to putting him with Brodie for at least part of some games to see how he does. Don't want to put him in a sink or swim situation in case he drowns.

[Flamescuprun2018]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Does putting Hamilton as the first pairing help or hurt?

He was first pairing for the first 6 games when Brodie was hurt and was a disaster. He got taken off the top pairing and was bad for another 5-6 games

His game has picked up to being able to handle the sheltered minutes.

Since the Flames have signed him for a long time they really want to make sure he does not melt down.

Having said that I would not be adverse to putting him with Brodie for at least part of some games to see how he does. Don't want to put him in a sink or swim situation in case he drowns.

Fair point, confidence took a big hit with that bad stretch that he is recovering from with sheltered minutes.

Did not have Brodie as his partner for that initial stretch of top minutes so might have fared better.

Hamilton/Brodie will eventually be our top pairing. Might as well try it out here and there against certain teams.

[Flamescuprun2018]

Originally Posted by Itse

I don't see how Stockton callups are "real moves". We've seen some already. Rämö already went through waivers, as did Raymond. (In other words, no team wanted our current #1 goalie, even for free.)

I also wouldn't compare scratches to trades and firings in terms of significance.

I think it will eventually be a firing. Jack Adams or not, our roster is not as bad as the team plays, and that's on the coach.

I also don't think impactful trades are even a realistic option at this points. They're hard to make in any situation, and right now our players stocks are so low there's no point in trading them. For example I don't think literally anyone would take Giordano off our hands right now, with the contract that's coming up and the way he's playing. Too much risk.

The only Stockton moves that might make sense is a rotation where you bring up one forward and one defenseman at a time for 5-8 game stints to expose them to what they need to work on at the farm. Fans will get a nice chance to evaluate potential too.

Poirier/Agostino/Klimchuk/others with good streaks in Stockton.

Same would go for our young Dmen. Bring up Wotherspoon/Seiloff/Kylington/Nakladal/Morrison one by one.

All we would have to do is trade one Dman and waive Raymond to make room.

[Northendzone]

while i am not for benching gio, i was wondering if anyone can recall the last time an nhl captain was a healthy scratch?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by codynw

Being last year's Jack Adams winner means nothing this year.

In the end I'd rather die thinking it did than have overreacted to any big taste of adversity as a sports fan.

You can think his award was a fluke, you can think this stretch is, or you can think they both mean something. I'd rather be the optimist or the realist than the pessimist.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

In the end I'd rather die thinking it did than have overreacted to any big taste of adversity as a sports fan.

You can think his award was a fluke, you can think this stretch is, or you can think they both mean something. I'd rather be the optimist or the realist than the pessimist.

I think his award means very little, and I also think this stretch means equally little. They're just two extremes that skew opinion away from "Hartley is an average coach"

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I think his award means very little, and I also think this stretch means equally little. They're just two extremes that skew opinion away from "Hartley is an average coach"

I would agree. Problem being for me that there are a lot of average ones out there, so firing him right now? Not smart. Let's wait for an upgrade if that's the call, unless people think Carlyle is going to be one.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by polak

Sick. I won employee of the month last month. Guess I get to do #### all this month and fail miserably at my job and be the worst performer in the entire industry in almost every measurable category.

No, but I'm betting you'd be given more than a month to get back on track if this was the case. Also, it's a poor comparable to use employee of the month. Winning the Jack Adams would be like winning an award for excellence in your entire field of work. But just to stick with your example, maybe winning employee of the month earned you just a little good will at your job? Or do you live in some extreme version of darwinian capitalism where only the absolute best at all times maintain employment?

Jesus...talk about an extreme view on things.

[polak]

I didn't spend much time thinking of that analogy obviously.

I still think you get fired if you show such poor results in the first quarter of the year at any job. He is the worst coach in the league at this moment.

That's bad.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Let's review the options and what they do.

1) Firing: Maybe it shakes the team up enough to go on a run, but this season is probably over in terms of playoffs, so why bother? If you fire the coach you better be sure to have a contingency plan, otherwise you can wander even longer in the land of poor coaching.

2) Trade: Honestly not the worst idea, but you're trading from a position of weakness and poor value for assets at the moment. That's the quick way to getting in a disastrous trade that sets the franchise back. Both the Gilmour and Phaneuf trades were done from a position of weakness and panic. It didn't really work out that well, regardless of your opinion of Phaneuf.

3) Waivers/Stockton callup: Wonderful...problem is almost the entire Stockton roster is underperforming so far. You're not going to get a young prospect called up, you'll get guys like Freddie Hamilton, Drew Shore, and Jakub Nakladal. Not a bad thing, but those are older guys who aren't part of the long term plans. Next.

4) Benching/Healthy scratches: I don't have a problem with this one, because accountability is important. The problem is, almost everyone has been terrible, so unless you're going to go through a cycle of benching every player for a game, it's not terribly useful to single guys out. Especially when morale is already low.

I have to say, it's a terrible situation right now because there likely isn't a quick fix. It might take the better part of the season to get the players and team back on track. I will say though, if Hartley doesn't get this team to improve somewhat over the course of the year, he might have to be held accountable for that.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Let's review the options and what they do.

1) Firing: Maybe it shakes the team up enough to go on a run, but this season is probably over in terms of playoffs, so why bother? If you fire the coach you better be sure to have a contingency plan, otherwise you can wander even longer in the land of poor coaching.

2) Trade: Honestly not the worst idea, but you're trading from a position of weakness and poor value for assets at the moment. That's the quick way to getting in a disastrous trade that sets the franchise back. Both the Gilmour and Phaneuf trades were done from a position of weakness and panic. It didn't really work out that well, regardless of your opinion of Phaneuf.

3) Waivers/Stockton callup: Wonderful...problem is almost the entire Stockton roster is underperforming so far. You're not going to get a young prospect called up, you'll get guys like Freddie Hamilton, Drew Shore, and Jakub Nakladal. Not a bad thing, but those are older guys who aren't part of the long term plans. Next.

4) Benching/Healthy scratches: I don't have a problem with this one, because accountability is important. The problem is, almost everyone has been terrible, so unless you're going to go through a cycle of benching every player for a game, it's not terribly useful to single guys out. Especially when morale is already low.

I have to say, it's a terrible situation right now because there likely isn't a quick fix. It might take the better part of the season to get the players and team back on track. I will say though, if Hartley doesn't get this team to improve somewhat over the course of the year, he might have to be held accountable for that.

Good post, Cali. I don't see firing Hartley (if it comes to that) unless a very good coach is available. That is more likely at the end of the season. Benching works better when it is done to encourage more effort from players who are not putting out. If it is done to players who are trying but lacking in confidence, it might make things even worse.