[News] CalgaryNEXT Announcement. New arena details emerge.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Sure, it eventually needs to happen whenever that land may be developed. That's the point. It's tied to the project. No development, no need to incur the clean up costs. They aren't separate issues.

Since the creosote has been leaking right across the river and has been found in West Hillhurst, they are indeed separate issues. This has been brought up before, but those unalterably opposed to the project find it convenient to forget it.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Since the creosote has been leaking right across the river and has been found in West Hillhurst, they are indeed separate issues. This has been brought up before, but those unalterably opposed to the project find it convenient to forget it.

Source?

Just curious, as I have never heard of it leaking into the river yet.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

From a self made person with way more business and finance knowledge than anyone on this board has, amazing how the no tax money group attacks the person instead of the model.

So was Edmonton supposed to believe Darryl Katz about his great deal?

Are we supposed to believe Donald Trump about the great things his developments will do?

I didn't attack the person. At all. But, to be fair, his business knowledge probably has little depth in terms of urban planning and the economics of stadiums. Just a guess.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Source?

Just curious, as I have never heard of it leaking into the river yet.

After engineers found blobs of toxic creosote oozing into the Bow River in the late 1980s from the former site of the Domtar facility, then environment minister Ralph Klein said the case demonstrated the need for legislation that would require polluters to pay.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...te-experts-say

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...te-experts-say

Thanks!

Was this before or after they installed the concrete barrier?

EDIT

The containment wall was added in 1996.
http://www.calgarysun.com/2015/08/19...n-west-village

This report looks into the issue on the north side (Hillhurst) and the risk of contamination. Its long, but it appears that much of the contamination on that side is from before the containment wall was added.

http://aep.alberta.ca/lands-forests/...sment-2014.pdf

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by D as in David

If East Village could start with just a CRL (and no project), why can't the same be said for West Village? Once the land is remediated in WV, it could be argued that the location is just as valuable for re-development as was EV.

Easily arguable that it is much, much more valuable. WV is surrounded by river, pleasant part of downtown, LRT and nice communities/Shaganappi Golf Course area.

EV was surrounded by river, Fort Calgary, CN Tracks and the homeless part of downtown, and was already known as the sketchy/crime part of town.

The creosote can be removed with money. The homeless/crime problems would take lots more money, and will most likely just shift slightly to somewhere else adjacent to the EV Would I buy a condo in the EV with my wife? Not in the next 30 years. WV? Sign my up if the creosote is gone.

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Easily arguable that it is much, much more valuable. WV is surrounded by river, pleasant part of downtown, LRT and nice communities/Shaganappi Golf Course area.

EV was surrounded by river, Fort Calgary, CN Tracks and the homeless part of downtown, and was already known as the sketchy/crime part of town.

The creosote can be removed with money. The homeless/crime problems would take lots more money, and will most likely just shift slightly to somewhere else adjacent to the EV Would I buy a condo in the EV with my wife? Not in the next 30 years. WV? Sign my up if the creosote is gone.

Ok great. Except the EV has already been massively developed and we don't have the population influx to take on the WV at the same time.

The WV argument is 10 years too late. Now it gets to wait another 10-15 years

[OutOfTheCube]

The Balzac idea was a bit tongue in cheek, but I just really don't think the current locations ever going to get going. Too many logistical problems.

How about this: bulldoze McMahon and that crappy baseball diamond and build there? Again, tons of space, lots of parking, no environment clean up, easy access for people... Why not that one?

It just seems like they took the most difficult and least viable location and were like... Yep, that's the one!

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

The Balzac idea was a bit tongue in cheek, but I just really don't think the current locations ever going to get going. Too many logistical problems.

How about this: bulldoze McMahon and that crappy baseball diamond and build there? Again, tons of space, lots of parking, no environment clean up, easy access for people... Why not that one?

It just seems like they took the most difficult and least viable location and were like... Yep, that's the one!

1. you have to buy the land from the University of Calgary or at the very least negotiate a lease/usage agreement with them
2. no CRL, so the funding model has to be readjusted
3. not really a centralized location
4. where do the Stampeders play while McMahon is being bulldozed and the new stadium is being built

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

The Balzac idea was a bit tongue in cheek, but I just really don't think the current locations ever going to get going. Too many logistical problems.

How about this: bulldoze McMahon and that crappy baseball diamond and build there? Again, tons of space, lots of parking, no environment clean up, easy access for people... Why not that one?

It just seems like they took the most difficult and least viable location and were like... Yep, that's the one!

Doesn't have the restaurant scene which citizens would like to see (and I don't think there is room to develop one)

The flames won't own the parking revenue. The go from being held hostage by the Stampede and the UofC to just the UofC.

Also, not directly adjacent to the train, and the train station itself may need to be upgraded (although current stamp season ticket holders manage it, so what do I know).

Other than that, it isn't a bad spot - still close to the core, fairly central, fairly close to the train (despite my comment above), hell's angles motels nearby.

Better then Balzac or the location off deerfoot I would say.

[sureLoss]

^ I don't think parking is a big deal. The way the project is presented now with limited parking, they wouldn't be getting a lot of money out of parking anyways.

[Muta]

The McMahon Stadium site is too far away for the corporate crowd, and there's not enough amenities around there to properly support the 'entertainment experience' that the Flames want (more than just hockey) for forty-two dates a year (maybe more).

[powderjunkie]

Also, Crowchild is a total #### show already; getting to McMahon is fine on a weekend afternoon, but good luck on a week night 7pm puck drop.

[East Coast Flame]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

The Balzac idea was a bit tongue in cheek, but I just really don't think the current locations ever going to get going. Too many logistical problems.

How about this: bulldoze McMahon and that crappy baseball diamond and build there? Again, tons of space, lots of parking, no environment clean up, easy access for people... Why not that one?

It just seems like they took the most difficult and least viable location and were like... Yep, that's the one!

I know that the Flames were offered this and they turned it down.

[Ozy_Flame]

Someone wil call me out on this I'm sure, but if a downtown location was not in the cards, it would have been good to see it go up where the Zoo parking / TELUS World of Science is . . . Good access via transit (Memorial Drive, Deerfoot acess), two stops out of downtown (easy access to and from the core), and plenty of visibility via passing volume. Not to mention you get other Calgary tourist locations in the same vicinity. Not sure the other side of Deerfoot (Fire Park) would have been that accessible or desirable.

That said, I still think the West Village is the best location.

[Vinny01]

It sucks there are so many hurdles with the Weat Billage because I truly think that is a fantastic location and great use for that land

[hockey.modern]

CalgaryNext arena and stadium plan remains 'just an idea' in Nenshi's mind
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...2015-1.3384327

Mayor Naheed Nenshi continues to question the viability of the Calgary Flames' proposal to build a new arena in the city's West Village area — refusing to even refer to it as a "proposal."

In addition, he said there are outstanding questions about whether the site, located near the existing Greyhound bus station, could be feasibly prepared for any type of development

It's unclear exactly how remediation of the site would be done and who would pay for it; the Flames ownership group is not offering to cover any of that tab as part of its current proposal.

Nenshi said the city will openly weigh the pros and cons of the Flames' plan and the public will be asked for input throughout the process.

"It may well be the numbers just don't balance ... but it may be that we go a little further, and we'll do that with the public," he said.

"We have to be very, very clear that we're spending public money on public benefit," Nenshi added.

The issue is set to formally return before council in the spring.

Early analysis suggests arena levy wouldn't work as advertised, says Nenshi
http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...ce-says-nenshi

Early estimates suggest it would cost $50 million to $300 million to remediate the site.

City council has approved a set of guiding principles to examine the Flames’ proposal, environmental cleanup and analysis of potential revenue from a levy, over several phases. That report is due no later than April 30, 2016.

“In March, we’ll have a good sense of what the environmental costs are and a slightly refined sense of what the (levy) might bring in,” Nenshi said.

“But the No. 1 thing is, if the numbers don’t balance, then we should stop wasting everyone’s time.”

[Looch City]

“But the No. 1 thing is, if the numbers don’t balance, then we should stop wasting everyone’s time.”

Oooh burn, ball's in your court King haha

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

“But the No. 1 thing is, if the numbers don’t balance, then we should stop wasting everyone’s time.”

Oooh burn, ball's in your court King haha

This is Nenshi being Nenshi, and talking when he shouldn't.

The full quote:

“In March, we’ll have a good sense of what the environmental costs are and a slightly refined sense of what the (levy) might bring in,” Nenshi said.

“But the No. 1 thing is, if the numbers don’t balance, then we should stop wasting everyone’s time.”

It's quite obvious he's against it, even though he admits he doesn't know the cost of cleanup or income from the CRL.

While it may or may not be economically feasible, he should keep an open mind, as opposed to being so obviously 100% against it in all his comments.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

This is Nenshi being Nenshi, and talking when he shouldn't.

The full quote:

“In March, we’ll have a good sense of what the environmental costs are and a slightly refined sense of what the (levy) might bring in,” Nenshi said.

“But the No. 1 thing is, if the numbers don’t balance, then we should stop wasting everyone’s time.”

It's quite obvious he's against it, even though he admits he doesn't know the cost of cleanup or income from the CRL.

While it may or may not be economically feasible, he should keep an open mind, as opposed to being so obviously 100% against it in all his comments.

I'd bet his comments reflect the majority of calgarians.