[News] CalgaryNEXT Announcement. New arena details emerge.

[curves2000]

I have said it before and I will say it again. If the ownership group is expecting the city to pony up $200 mil for their portion of the field house than the taxpayers need to get some revenue benefit for that.

We can't have $200 mil in taxpayer dollars going to a project that's going to be used by the public a good chunk of time AND have the ownership group collect all the revenue from all the events, parking, concerts, concessions etc. That right there is worth tens of millions a year, every year for an expected lifespan of 35+ years. I don't want to see any crap "rent" payments like the taxpayers in Edmonton got hosed for. The ownership up there is paying rent I believe of $7 mil a year to the city but gets the ability to collect all revenue. As an investor I would love the ability to pay chump rent and collect huge revenue streams on a property I don't own.

Also as a side note that I don't want to sidetrack anymore is the Gov of Alberta finances. The Alberta Gov has been bleeding red ink and burning through our rainy day funds for years. A few years ago they went to an accounting model where they didn't include the total cost of capital projects paid in full when PRESENTING the budget to the public and the press.

An example would be building a bridge for say $30 mil with an expected lifespan of 30 years. On the budget this would have been listed as a capital expense of $1 mil a year for the next 30. In reality $30 mil in cash was paid out for construction.

We have been burning through billions a year and the financial picture is looking awful and I am not really sure I am seeing the true public benefits of billions and billions in debt on top of the highest per capita spending by a provincial government. As a 30 year old born Calgarian I remember the cuts to services during the dark days of the early 90's when Ralph Klien was trying to get the budget under control. We felt the pain but I am still waiting to see the actual GAIN.

Todays debt is tomorrows taxes and working hours. The same thing applies to personal finances too.

Sorry about the rant.

[heep223]

The worrisome part is that we're going into debt to fund operating expenses, because this govt is reluctant to cut services or public sector budgets. I don't really have a problem with using debt to fund infrastructure, but that's not the only story here.

But at least if you work for the govt your 9-3:30 job is safe, while the private sector is in agony!

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by heep223

But at least if you work for the govt your 9-3:30 job is safe, while the private sector is in agony!

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

The difference between Edmonton and Calgary is that Edmonton badly needed that arena to kickstart the redevelopment of that area.

It is very much debatable if CalgaryNext is needed at all to develop the West Village.

That supposes that Edmonton's downtown wouldn't have seen growth naturally or without the arena. Studies have shown that arena construction hardly kickstarts gentrification in an area, and if it does, it is just substituted growth.

Granted, part of the plan was for Katz to invest in the area (a great coup for the Katz Group in that condo and office tower investment is not included in team-revenue); however, Edmonton's downtown was already seeing steady growth over the past few years

[RM14]

https://youtu.be/9GwHG9NBILQ

A video of Brett Wilson's comments on the project

[T@T]

Originally Posted by RM14

https://youtu.be/9GwHG9NBILQ

A video of Brett Wilson's comments on the project

Shocking! a Treliving teammate who likes CalgaryNext.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by T@T

Shocking! a Treliving teammate who likes CalgaryNext.

Hi Brett, here are Ken King's speaking points. You can just say them, too. Thanks,

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Hi Brett, here are Ken King's speaking points. You can just say them, too. Thanks,

From a self made person with way more business and finance knowledge than anyone on this board has, amazing how the no tax money group attacks the person instead of the model.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

From a self made person with way more business and finance knowledge than anyone on this board has, amazing how the no tax money group attacks the person instead of the model.

The model has already been torn asunder

Unbelievably, Brett Wilson refers to the $500 million shortfall in funding as 'found money.

Found money?! According to the Flames own presentation, there's a $500 million budget shortfall that doesn't even address any of the infrastructure improvements the city will have to make should the project go through.

He's also blatantly incorrect about the city having budgeted $200 million for a field house. In fact, quite the opposite, the city has expressed their desire for a field house but haven't built one because they haven't been able to budget the money.

So, while Brett Wilson can say the city has 'emotionally' budgeted for that $200 million, the city has said repeatedly that they don't have the money for it.

That video shovels more bull#### in a minute than I can shovel in an hour.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The model has already been torn asunder

Unbelievably, Brett Wilson refers to the $500 million shortfall in funding as 'found money.

Found money?! According to the Flames own presentation, there's a $500 million budget shortfall that doesn't even address any of the infrastructure improvements the city will have to make should the project go through.

He's also blatantly incorrect about the city having budgeted $200 million for a field house. In fact, quite the opposite, the city has expressed their desire for a field house but haven't built one because they haven't been able to budget the money.

So, while Brett Wilson can say the city has 'emotionally' budgeted for that $200 million, the city has said repeatedly that they don't have the money for it.

That video shovels more bull#### in a minute than I can shovel in an hour.

Again with the misdirection on funding. The money comes from a ticket tax (user pay) and CRL funding which has been used in numerous other construction projects . With the area development the tax base increases and covers the CRL funding (same as East Village which never would have started without the CRL funding). Once the "loaned" money is returned to the city, then the additional tax income reverts to the CITY (as the City puts zero dollars from operating income into the project). Without a project driving the area development (as Wilson states) nothing gets done in the West Village.

The only money that the City contributes is the field house $200M, which they have stated for years is needed but will never get built without a project like this. The city has studied for years about rerouting traffic in the area and knows it will be done but have committed no funds or plans to actually performing the upgrades, maybe this project will spur the 3 levels of government to get their infrastructure spending prioritized. The infrastructure spending is not the responsibility of the Flames to address, maybe talk to City Council about this one. The biggest drawback to getting anything done in the West Village is the Creosote cleanup, again not the Flames issue, and again nothing will be done in the area until it is finished.

This is not the Flames asking for a handout from the City or tax payers. It is the second largest construction project in downtown Calgary (after the Bow) ever and our city leaders need to take it more seriously.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

Again with the misdirection on funding. The money comes from a ticket tax (user pay) and CRL funding which has been used in numerous other construction projects . With the area development the tax base increases and covers the CRL funding (same as East Village which never would have started without the CRL funding). Once the "loaned" money is returned to the city, then the additional tax income reverts to the CITY (as the City puts zero dollars from operating income into the project). Without a project driving the area development (as Wilson states) nothing gets done in the West Village.

The only money that the City contributes is the field house $200M, which they have stated for years is needed but will never get built without a project like this. The city has studied for years about rerouting traffic in the area and knows it will be done but have committed no funds or plans to actually performing the upgrades, maybe this project will spur the 3 levels of government to get their infrastructure spending prioritized. The infrastructure spending is not the responsibility of the Flames to address, maybe talk to City Council about this one. The biggest drawback to getting anything done in the West Village is the Creosote cleanup, again not the Flames issue, and again nothing will be done in the area until it is finished.

This is not the Flames asking for a handout from the City or tax payers. It is the second largest construction project in downtown Calgary (after the Bow) ever and our city leaders need to take it more seriously.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

Again with the misdirection on funding. The money comes from a ticket tax (user pay) and CRL funding which has been used in numerous other construction projects . With the area development the tax base increases and covers the CRL funding (same as East Village which never would have started without the CRL funding). Once the "loaned" money is returned to the city, then the additional tax income reverts to the CITY (as the City puts zero dollars from operating income into the project). Without a project driving the area development (as Wilson states) nothing gets done in the West Village.

The only money that the City contributes is the field house $200M, which they have stated for years is needed but will never get built without a project like this. The city has studied for years about rerouting traffic in the area and knows it will be done but have committed no funds or plans to actually performing the upgrades, maybe this project will spur the 3 levels of government to get their infrastructure spending prioritized. The infrastructure spending is not the responsibility of the Flames to address, maybe talk to City Council about this one. The biggest drawback to getting anything done in the West Village is the Creosote cleanup, again not the Flames issue, and again nothing will be done in the area until it is finished.

This is not the Flames asking for a handout from the City or tax payers. It is the second largest construction project in downtown Calgary (after the Bow) ever and our city leaders need to take it more seriously.

If East Village could start with just a CRL (and no project), why can't the same be said for West Village? Once the land is remediated in WV, it could be argued that the location is just as valuable for re-development as was EV.

[sureLoss]

source:
http://albertaventure.com/2015/11/ta...-rogers-place/

[hockey.modern]

^

Also known as a comparison of a project about to be completed vs unknowns.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

Again with the misdirection on funding. The money comes from a ticket tax (user pay) and CRL funding which has been used in numerous other construction projects . With the area development the tax base increases and covers the CRL funding (same as East Village which never would have started without the CRL funding). Once the "loaned" money is returned to the city, then the additional tax income reverts to the CITY (as the City puts zero dollars from operating income into the project). Without a project driving the area development (as Wilson states) nothing gets done in the West Village.

The only money that the City contributes is the field house $200M, which they have stated for years is needed but will never get built without a project like this. The city has studied for years about rerouting traffic in the area and knows it will be done but have committed no funds or plans to actually performing the upgrades, maybe this project will spur the 3 levels of government to get their infrastructure spending prioritized. The infrastructure spending is not the responsibility of the Flames to address, maybe talk to City Council about this one. The biggest drawback to getting anything done in the West Village is the Creosote cleanup, again not the Flames issue, and again nothing will be done in the area until it is finished.

This is not the Flames asking for a handout from the City or tax payers. It is the second largest construction project in downtown Calgary (after the Bow) ever and our city leaders need to take it more seriously.

There's just so many things wrong here it's tough to know where to start.

I hope to christ CalgaryNext gets blown to smithereens, it's awful. Absolutely brutal.

To suggest it isn't the Flames asking for a handout is simply wrong.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by RM14

https://youtu.be/9GwHG9NBILQ

A video of Brett Wilson's comments on the project

The very fact that he says the city is only being asked for 200 million and the money is already budgeted should give you all the information you need to critically dismiss his opinion.
Anytime anyone tries selling you anything using the words "found money" be very weary.
That video looks like he's being interrogated. no lights, nothing in the background... I wonder if he was being held in a cave somewhere until he agreed to say what they wanted.

[Freeway]

If the money was budgeted, it would mean that they had it.
Which they don't.

[Tinordi]

The only money that the City contributes is the field house $200M, which they have stated for years is needed but will never get built without a project like this. The city has studied for years about rerouting traffic in the area and knows it will be done but have committed no funds or plans to actually performing the upgrades, maybe this project will spur the 3 levels of government to get their infrastructure spending prioritized. The infrastructure spending is not the responsibility of the Flames to address, maybe talk to City Council about this one. The biggest drawback to getting anything done in the West Village is the Creosote cleanup, again not the Flames issue, and again nothing will be done in the area until it is finished.

This is not the Flames asking for a handout from the City or tax payers. It is the second largest construction project in downtown Calgary (after the Bow) ever and our city leaders need to take it more seriously.

Just a bewildering misrepresentation of the situation.

Flames not asking for a handout?

The only money the city needs to spend is 200 million?

The creosote cleanup and infrastructure costs are not related to the project?

The city is not taking this proposal seriously? If you think that "taking seriously" means throwing all critical faculties and abandoning the duty to represent the best interests of tax payers out the window.

We can all have our different opinions on this project but to blatantly trot out these falsities doesn't do service to anyone's interest.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Just a bewildering misrepresentation of the situation.

Flames not asking for a handout?

The only money the city needs to spend is 200 million?

The creosote cleanup and infrastructure costs are not related to the project?

The city is not taking this proposal seriously? If you think that "taking seriously" means throwing all critical faculties and abandoning the duty to represent the best interests of tax payers out the window.

We can all have our different opinions on this project but to blatantly trot out these falsities doesn't do service to anyone's interest.

You make it sound like the bolded line is something that doesn't need to happen. It absolutely does regardless of Calgary NEXT.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You make it sound like the bolded line is something that doesn't need to happen. It absolutely does regardless of Calgary NEXT.

Sure, it eventually needs to happen whenever that land may be developed. That's the point. It's tied to the project. No development, no need to incur the clean up costs. They aren't separate issues.