Ortio on Waivers [Update: Clears]

[sureLoss]

Interesting... Treliving on 960 implied they tried to send Ortio on a conditioning stint earlier in the year to get some playing time but Ortio wouldn't agree to it.

[burn_this_city]

Hope the relationship isn't souring on both sides. I can't help but think the 3 headed monster really messed the confidence of all three goalies.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Interesting... Treliving on 960 implied they tried to send Ortio on a conditioning stint earlier in the year to get some playing time but Ortio wouldn't agree to it.

Well, that's a bridge-burning sort of thing... or at least bridge-smoking.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Interesting... Treliving on 960 implied they tried to send Ortio on a conditioning stint earlier in the year to get some playing time but Ortio wouldn't agree to it.

Very, very interesting little nugget.

I wonder if Ortio thinks his time is now.

[SuperMatt18]

Extremely short sighted move on Ortio's part at the time too.

Could have went and got some starts in, then would have come back up with a chance to take the spot without any rust.

[sureLoss]

Hmm the Fan 960 guys are playing it off as Hiller's injury got in the way as the reason the conditioning stint didn't go through.

Maybe I heard wrong.. was multitasking at the time.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by polak

Name a player that Treliving acquired that has been great for this team?

Frolik and I'd say Engelland have been good.

The rest?

His big Gio extension is up in the air right now. The goalie situation. Hamilton. Raymond. Setoguchi. Bollig....

The Brodie contract is amazing. Hiller was a big part of the playoff run last year. Hamilton is going to be really good. Setoguchi was worth trying, even though it didn't work out. Though it was a no brainer, he also drafted Bennett.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by polak

This seems to be a running theme with Treliving's moves. Look great when they're made and turn out miserably.

Trades

Bollig trade- Bad
Shore trade- Meh (at the time it looked better)
Baertschi trade- Fantastic
Glencross trade- Fantastic
Hamilton trade- Meh so far but at the time it looked fantastic (could still be the coup we thought it was... or maybe it won't)
Poulin trade- who cares?

FA signings

Engelland- the fact that so many were confused that 2.91m was the value of the whole deal and not the AAV says it all
Raymond- terrible at the time and even worse now
Hiller- needed a goalie so whatever...
Setoguchi- worth a shot... who cares?
Brodie- Amazing, simply amazing
Backlund- unnecessary signing but it won't hurt us, exactly the type of player you can live without.
Hamilton- could be fair, could be disaster, I guess we'll find out
Ramo- bad signing
Frolik- market value for a mid 6 UFA forward, but wasted on a bad team
Bouma- slight overpayment on term and $
Giordano- not looking to great tbh
Ferland- looks good even if Ferland is a 4th liner

Mixed bag if you ask me, especially considering the state the team was is when he took over. What he does from now until the start of next season will be very telling, more so than anything that's happened to this point (goalie debacle aside).

[Tyler]

I laugh at the people criticizing him on the Gio deal.

That is a unique situation where your hands are really tied as a GM. Can you honestly imagine if we didnt' re-sign him to a big extension? We'd be the joke of the league

[SuperMatt18]

^ Don't forget the Glencross trade, and the Baertschi trades either.

Plus I would still make the Hamilton trade 10 times out of 10.

Which of Treliving's moves have really hurt us long term?...Raymond and that is still only 3 years, and potentially Giordano if he doesn't turn it around (but as Tyler said you have to make that deal and at the time it looked like the value was a bargain compared to the open market).

[Bingo]

Think anyone that is down on the Hamilton deal will be changing their tune soon (this year by Xmas is my guess, but certainly next season).

You can't fake 3 seasons in the NHL.
And if you could it would be an NHL outpost and not Boston.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Tyler

I laugh at the people criticizing him on the Gio deal.

That is a unique situation where your hands are really tied as a GM. Can you honestly imagine if we didnt' re-sign him to a big extension? We'd be the joke of the league

What's the worst that would've happened? Gio comes into 2015/16 without an extension, plays amazing and prices himself out of Calgary? In that case we trade him for a bounty of riches. Or maybe he's insulted because we didn't sign him soon enough? Again, trade him for a bounty of riches. Another thing to consider is that if he played badly with no contract, he would be much more tradeable than he is right now.

By not signing him we could've avoided what was truly the worst case scenario, which was him regressing and the contract becoming an albatross. I'm not ready to say that is definitely going to be the case but sometimes when you try to eliminate all risk it can blow up in your face even worse.

[Phanuthier]

Its been said many times that while Engelland/Bollig are "expensive" that was a known and accepted cost because of the intangibles they bring to a young team... this wasn't just backpedaling, it was made the day of the transaction. Considering cap space doesn't matter until next season (and we'll see how pinched we are next season) I don't see either of them as a big deal.

I think its crazy people actually consider Hamilton a bad deal.

He made a few small transactions that did pay off, like David Schlemko.

I know he cleared, but the whole three headed goaltending monster is his worst mistake, IMO.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

What I see so far:

Bob

- likes Ramo
- is ambivalent about Hiller
- does not like / is uncomfortable with Ortio

Brad

- if forced to choose, probably leans Hiller over Ramo (was ok leaving Ramo unsigned until late in the off-season)
- does not think we have a current legit #1 (hence rumblings of off-season trades involving Hiller)
- likely thinks Ortio should be playing as a regular back-up (started the season with 3-man rotation to push for a resolution between Hiller / Ramo; sent Ramo sent down deservedly due to poor play; today's quote that Ortio "needs to play. That's the bottom line."


I suspect there was an uneasy truce about the goaltending situation during the off-season and into training camp. The situation likely could have resolved itself more readily had the team not started the season off so pitifully. But with practically no wins and rising pressure, Hartley went into bunker mode and was likely to ride either veteran over Ortio. Both played so pitifully that he had to send one down and give Ortio the odd start. Neither team nor Ortio played well, Hiller got injured, and Bob got his favourite goalie back.

I bet Hartley is happier than Treliving is about the whole situation. In fact, I suspect it worked out the exact opposite of what Treliving had planned or hoped for.

I think Hartley's been questionable with his judgement on goalies for most of his time here. He also really liked Berra when he was here and ran him out way more than needed.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Tyler

I laugh at the people criticizing him on the Gio deal.

That is a unique situation where your hands are really tied as a GM. Can you honestly imagine if we didnt' re-sign him to a big extension? We'd be the joke of the league

Leaf fans & the Toronto-centric media rationalized the Dion extension the same way.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by saillias

Leaf fans & the Toronto-centric media rationalized the Dion extension the same way.

There is a VERY big difference between Phaneuf and Gio

[polak]

People must have not read my comment correctly. I said that a lot his moves look good but have looked bad so far. What I meant by that is that he is making all the right moves but they seem to turn.

Draft picks can't turn so those trades don't apply.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

There is a VERY big difference between Phaneuf and Gio

Yeah but the situation is comparable. Captain on the back half of his career, signing an early extension, anxiety in the fanbase about his performance in the latter part of a huge deal. And frankly this year, Phaneuf has been better.

I'll stop there before someone calls me a BigTuna alt.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

If our number 5 prospects cleared waivers, we might have to worry about our drafting/prospect pool.

If that prospect was a defenseman or a forward then yes. But goalies are handled differently because there is a limited number of spots for them at the NHL level and at the minor league level.

Ortio clearing at this point only means that mid-season no team was willing to take him and have to waive their backup. It's not as simple for them as just claiming him, they have to make room for him as well. And some teams may be close to the contract limit and thus don't want to handicap themselves by adding a contract without ensuring they can drop one.

Ortio has the potential to be a backup or even starting goalie. All him clearing means is that nobody league wide thinks he's ready to be an everyday NHLer YET and has the means to clear room for him. Markstrom was similar to Ortio in that he was highly regarded and had dominated the AHL and yet he has cleared previously as well.

You'd probably be shocked at the list of goalies who've cleared waivers earlier in their careers. It's more a matter of how goalies have to be handled with only 60 spots for them in the NHL than it is a slight on Ortio's potential.

[Armchair Quarterback]

Very pleased that Ortio cleared. I think he has great potential and would like to see him get a little more ice time.