Ortio on Waivers [Update: Clears]

[Otto-matic]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

Ortio in Stockton playing tonnes of games is likely what is best for Ortio and the Flames long term. Sending a young goalie down is not a death knell for a career. I think he could be back this year.

Exactly,

I'd rather have Joni find his game and perfect it in the AHL over sitting on the bench in Calgary or getting blown out when he gets a start. He'll be back up in no time.

[sureLoss]

@NHLFlames: The #Flames have assigned Joni Ortio to the @AHLHeat ~ http://cflam.es/1T80EoS http://twitter.com/NHLFlames/status/...885056/photo/1

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by heep223

Ramo is not a capable #1. It was a panic move, which turned out to be prudent because Hiller got hurt.

Why - other than the fact that you obviously disagree with it - was re-signing Ramo a "panic move"?

[Ryan Coke]

I want Ortio to get his game back and be a player for the Flames, but for everyone feeling like he deserved extra playing time to find his game like Hiller and Ramo have gotten.....he put up the single worst goaltending display I have seen in years against the Habs. It doesn't matter how good a team they are, he was terrible in that game. Ramo and Hiller have not played a game that badly this year. He didn't deserve more playing time.

Hopefully he can get going down in Stockton.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Ryan Coke

he put up the single worst goaltending display I have seen in years against the Habs.

Exaggeration much? Just last year Hiller put up a worse performance against the Panthers and a comparable performance against the Ducks, and Ramo put up a comparable performance against the Sabres.

Berra gave us some horrible performances too a few years back too. And has everyone conveniently forgotten the lockout season where even Kipper had some awful games never mind his backups?

Ortio was bad in that game, but normally when goalies are having a night like that they just get pulled. Look at the other night where Khudobin's rebound control got him pulled with two goals on four shots. Was Ortio's goaltending display worse than that?

Ramo and Hiller have not played a game that badly this year.

Ramo and Hiller also didn't sit out a whole month...

[Calgary4LIfe]

Ortio clearing doesn't necessarily mean that CP had him overvalued. Goalies are much tougher to fit in on a roster than an extra skater. No team wants to run with 3 goalies. Sure, there were some injuries, but most teams have reliable backups + a decent up-and-coming goalie prospect they want to give time to as well.

Ortio did great last season. Was that the anomaly? Based on how Hiller (who has been consistently 'decent') and Ramo (who last year showed he was also 'decent') have been playing to start the year, plus how the entire team has been playing to start the year, I will bet that this year is the anomaly.

No reason to write him off. No reason to believe he has no trade value either. Just much tougher for teams to fit him on a roster, and Ortio didn't shine this year in his limited games to give confidence to a team that he could carry the load when called upon.

Stockton now has a good goalie again, and that will bode well for the team down there. They desperately needed it when finally their goal scoring seemed to be on the uptick. I bet in a couple of months, CP will once again be singing Ortio's praises and be thankful they have Gillies, MacDonald and Ortio in the system. Kid is a legitimate prospect.

Giordano isn't a terrible player, though he has played terribly this year. 90% of the players on this team have been playing terribly this year at least during stretches. Ortio has too - but I think it is too quick to label him as anything other than a legitimate goalie prospect who has shown himself well in the past, but still has some work ahead of him to do in order to be a regular starter. No guarantees which way he goes - goalies are always unpredictable - but at least he showed himself well in the NHL last year over a (slightly) longer sample size, and has shown himself well in the AHL the past 2 seasons as well. I will take those over a 2 game sample size and 3-headed goalie monster start to the season and a team that has almost without an exception had players playing horribly for stretches.

[sureLoss]

@SUNRandySportak: #Flames Ortio: "It's not fun but it's part of the business." And "You're not gonna get any better sitting on the bench."

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Why - other than the fact that you obviously disagree with it - was re-signing Ramo a "panic move"?

The three headed goalie monster and handling of the goalie situation makes me think that it was like "oh #### everything fell through, we better sign Ramo really quickly before he bolts to Europe". That's what I mean by panic. I am not a fan of Ramo and I understand that's subjective, but I would challenge anyone to provide a reasonable rationale as to how he's a "capable #1", like the poster I was quoting.

Though I was in the camp of wanting to keep Hiller as #1 and Ortio as backup for the season, so what do I know. That would also have been a disaster in hindsight.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I took the Ramo signing as a clear indication that the Flames were wanting to part ways with Hiller. They lost confidence in him, and preferred Ramo. Didn't see it as a panic move. Just saw it as a move to put in place who they thought would give them the best chance to win.

[Vulcan]

Calgary Flames ‏@NHLFlames 23m23 minutes ago "Get back into a rhythm because I'm used to playing a lot." - Joni Ortio on his mindset heading to Stockton

Some have mentioned him going to Europe next season if he's unhappy. That to me wouldn't be a bad choice, it worked for Gio, depending on how things shake out.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Some have mentioned him going to Europe next season if he's unhappy. That to me wouldn't be a bad choice, it worked for Gio, depending on how things shake out.

He's already done that once. If he does it again I imagine it's more of a permanent relocation.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by heep223

The three headed goalie monster and handling of the goalie situation makes me think that it was like "oh #### everything fell through, we better sign Ramo really quickly before he bolts to Europe". That's what I mean by panic. I am not a fan of Ramo and I understand that's subjective, but I would challenge anyone to provide a reasonable rationale as to how he's a "capable #1", like the poster I was quoting.

Though I was in the camp of wanting to keep Hiller as #1 and Ortio as backup for the season, so what do I know. That would also have been a disaster in hindsight.

Ramo demonstrated last year that he can be a capable 1a/1b. I think it is fair to suggest that he could also be capable as a #1 - he has been just that for the past month, after all. But "capable" doesn't mean "superior".

As far as signing Ramo goes, it is clear that Treliving wasn't going to go into the season with just two goalies capable of playing in the NHL. He's all about creating competition, and Ortio doesn't get let off the hook because he was the golden child. So while it is possible that Ramo was not the #1 choice to be that third goalie in the mix, the fact that he was ultimately signed is not prima facie evidence that Treliving panicked. It merely means that he was working down his list of best options, and that Ramo was on that list.

I think that Treliving's goal was to determine which of Hiller and Ramo could carry the freight with Ortio - and Hiller initially won that job. But, injury and the respective play of the two remaining goalies dictated the situation we are in today.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

So now the ideal situation for the Flames would be:

- Tandem of Hiller/Ramo until the deadline. Hope one becomes tradeable by the deadline.
- Ortio gets all the AHL starts and builds confidence while Gillies is out.
- Trade one of Ramo/Hiller for a 4th round pick at the deadline.
- Call-up Ortio to be a solid 1b goaltender. Gillies back to being the AHL starter.
- Only re-sign one of Hiller/Ramo to a 1 year contract. Sign Ortio and tell him he's made it.

One can dream, right?

[SeanCharles]

^All of those things except don't re-sign either one (Ramo or Hiller)and look for an upgrade elsewhere..

[To Be Quite Honest]

Well, it seems 119 of use overvalued Ortio. Including myself.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

What I see so far:

Bob

- likes Ramo
- is ambivalent about Hiller
- does not like / is uncomfortable with Ortio

Brad

- if forced to choose, probably leans Hiller over Ramo (was ok leaving Ramo unsigned until late in the off-season)
- does not think we have a current legit #1 (hence rumblings of off-season trades involving Hiller)
- likely thinks Ortio should be playing as a regular back-up (started the season with 3-man rotation to push for a resolution between Hiller / Ramo; sent Ramo sent down deservedly due to poor play; today's quote that Ortio "needs to play. That's the bottom line."


I suspect there was an uneasy truce about the goaltending situation during the off-season and into training camp. The situation likely could have resolved itself more readily had the team not started the season off so pitifully. But with practically no wins and rising pressure, Hartley went into bunker mode and was likely to ride either veteran over Ortio. Both played so pitifully that he had to send one down and give Ortio the odd start. Neither team nor Ortio played well, Hiller got injured, and Bob got his favourite goalie back.

I bet Hartley is happier than Treliving is about the whole situation. In fact, I suspect it worked out the exact opposite of what Treliving had planned or hoped for.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

So now the ideal situation for the Flames would be:

- Tandem of Hiller/Ramo until the deadline. Hope one becomes tradeable by the deadline.
- Ortio gets all the AHL starts and builds confidence while Gillies is out.
- Trade one of Ramo/Hiller for a 4th round pick at the deadline.
- Call-up Ortio to be a solid 1b goaltender. Gillies back to being the AHL starter.
- Only re-sign one of Hiller/Ramo to a 1 year contract. Sign Ortio and tell him he's made it.

One can dream, right?

Agree with all of this except the last point. Move on from both Hiller and Ramo this summer and trade for or sign a new starter

[polak]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

I suspect it worked out the exact opposite of what Treliving had planned or hoped for.

This seems to be a running theme with Treliving's moves. Look great when they're made and turn out miserably.

[flamesrule_kipper34]

Originally Posted by polak

This seems to be a running theme with Treliving's moves. Look great when they're made and turn out miserably.

Running theme? Who exactly are we talking about here in turning out "miserably"?

When you say running theme that would imply a good chunk/majority of moves and I certainly do not see it that way.

[polak]

Originally Posted by flamesrule_kipper34

Running theme? Who exactly are we talking about here in turning out "miserably"?

When you say running theme that would imply a good chunk/majority of moves and I certainly do not see it that way.

Name a player that Treliving acquired that has been great for this team?

Frolik and I'd say Engelland have been good.

The rest?

His big Gio extension is up in the air right now. The goalie situation. Hamilton. Raymond. Setoguchi. Bollig....