Justin Trudeau says marijuana should be legalized

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Good article on what could be done right away:
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/dana-la...nada%20Alberta

I never realized bongs and vaporizers were illegal. Was there ever a medical exemption passed for this?

This is news to me. Plenty of stores around here selling those things.

[Yanda]

If there gonna try to monetize it I will just continue to get my product under the table.

I cant budget for additional taxes.

With my anxiety problems I think I would be eligible for medical marijuana but I dont want to go through the evasive process

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

If you can go to war for your country and die fighting overseas at 18, you should be able to smoke a joint at 18? I guess the counter-counter argument would be to raise the age to join the army at 21 .

Society has decided that 18 is old enough to make choices for yourself. However, this does not mean that allowing these choices will produce the optimal outcome given our knowledge of science at this time. My opinion on the matter is we should use whatever science we have available to determine what the best age to make substances like this available.

The science I personally have available due to my training says it should be 21, but I am totally willing to accept any conflicting evidence, since there is likely a very wide range of studies on the topics which I have not had the desire to read.

You are right though, if 21 is the optimal age for this kind of thing, then maybe the age to drink, age to join the military, etc should be reconsidered as well, if we want the most optimal outcomes in society. We all know people don't vote based on optimal outcomes though, so it likely would never fly.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Yanda

If there gonna try to monetize it I will just continue to get my product under the table.

I cant budget for additional taxes.

With my anxiety problems I think I would be eligible for medical marijuana but I dont want to go through the evasive process

It's already monetized. Do you think your dealer is providing a public service - at great risk to himself - so you can smoke a bowl after work?

I'd much rather see the monetization be legitimized. The grower is entitled to a profit margin, the guy who drives it to the store, the guy who operates the store so you can walk in and buy it, etc. And it should be taxed like any other business/product.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Yanda

If there gonna try to monetize it I will just continue to get my product under the table.

I cant budget for additional taxes.

With my anxiety problems I think I would be eligible for medical marijuana but I dont want to go through the evasive process

I really wonder if the price would go up or down under legalization. I think it would stay about the same. For a few reasons.

One the economics of it. As cheap as weed is comparatively, it's still illegal, and is still an investment to those growing it and selling it, and all that costs money. Getting an illegal product to market, even one as benign as weed, has costs. So it'd be cheaper initially. But once you add taxes you chip some of that away. I wonder if it'd be about the same.

Secondly, just outta common sense, one would have to think the government couldn't afford to make it too much more expensive, otherwise, people would just get it under the table as usual.

Perhaps those that have been to places like Amsterdam could tell us how it compares in price.

[AcGold]

I can't wait until this is a non issue, like same sex marriage. Just get it over with so we can all move on with our lives, loser stoners are going to be loser stoners no matter the law so get it done.

Keep the edibles away from kids and we can forget the issue entirely. Hear about tax revenues once in a while but other than that this needs to go away, more freedom less red tape. My neighbors sit on their patio and smoke pot everyday, nobody cares anymore really. It would be great to focus energy on the homeless, womens shelters or things that are actually a good use of time.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by AcGold

It would be great to focus energy on the homeless, womens shelters or things that are actually a good use of time.

Most of the homeless are men so shouldn't we focus on shelters and help for men? Anyway I agree with the rest of your points.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by zamler

Most of the homeless are men so shouldn't we focus on shelters and help for men? Anyway I agree with the rest of your points.

That's always a good agenda to drag into a thread.

[zamler]

What agenda it's a fact. But for another thread so let's drop that line of discussion.

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by zamler

Most of the homeless are men so shouldn't we focus on shelters and help for men? Anyway I agree with the rest of your points.

First of all I didn't know that, second of all why not for both? Physically abused women and homeless men both need a ton of help.

I have studied the homeless problem a little and a lot of it stems from childhood abuse, neglect and substance abuse. Problems that can't be solved in a short amount of time for any individual.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Perhaps those that have been to places like Amsterdam could tell us how it compares in price.

It's tough to compare, mostly because Amsterdam has been at it so long, and I'm not exactly sure about the intricacies of their system. Also, I didn't buy any in bulk there, just pre-rolled joints.

There's a company called Bulldog that seems to run a lot of the coffee shops, and you can buy "reefer packs" from them which have 5 good sized joints for 15 or 20 euro (two different strengths). This was when the dollar was relatively even with the US so the exchange was about 1.3. so you're looking at $20-$30 for one of those packs, where each joint could probably last a whole night for 2-3 people. Me and my ex-GF were there, both pretty habitual smokers, and we would share a quarter of these things and be zonked. From what I could tell, the overall strength was quite a bit higher. And they do have single doobies (albiet HUGE ones. Like 4-5 inches long) for 30+ euro. I assume that to be the high potency stuff.

Here' to pack a joint the size they had there would probably be about $10 worth of weed. So by that metric it looks to be cheaper, but it really depends on a lot of things. How much is it taxed? What is the cost of licences to grow/sell? There will be varying price pints for quality. What is the cost of quality control? Will they be government controlled dispensaries (like liquor in BC/Sask) or will it be for private business, which, in theory, should keep the price low as long as there is high demand and no monopoly on distribution (this Bulldog company seemed to have a pretty huge market share of the business in Amsterdam).

Given our proximity to the source, I'd say it will end up cheaper.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Daradon

I really wonder if the price would go up or down under legalization. I think it would stay about the same. For a few reasons.

One the economics of it. As cheap as weed is comparatively, it's still illegal, and is still an investment to those growing it and selling it, and all that costs money. Getting an illegal product to market, even one as benign as weed, has costs. So it'd be cheaper initially. But once you add taxes you chip some of that away. I wonder if it'd be about the same.

Secondly, just outta common sense, one would have to think the government couldn't afford to make it too much more expensive, otherwise, people would just get it under the table as usual.

Perhaps those that have been to places like Amsterdam could tell us how it compares in price.

My friend who's mom has a weed card, right now she gets her stuff for $8/gram. And that's regardless of how much you order even in bulk. So that works out to ~$220/oz. On the streets you pay more for better quality. $220 on the streets better get you some good stuff. Not AAA grade, but it should be pretty good. However the more you buy, the cheaper it is in the end on a per gram basis.

Prices will definitely be something for regulators to consider. You are correct, if it's still cheaper to buy from the street guy, why bother going to the store? The good thing about that fixed government price is that you pay the same price across the board regardless of the quality. So she can get the heavy stuff (33% THC) and that will cost her the same as the lighter stuff she can get (16% THC). 33% THC on the street is pretty rare, but you'd be paying a premium. $240/oz at least but I've seen as high as $280/oz.

I heard a while back Trudeau say that that prices would have to be lowered because it wouldn't make sense to legalize weed but still have it more expensive then Joe Gangster selling it as everyone will still go see him. It will be interesting to see what kind of prices the government will set it at. Because once you add on taxes, you'd still have to be below that $10/gram threshold that street prices are set at.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

My friend who's mom has a weed card, right now she gets her stuff for $8/gram. And that's regardless of how much you order even in bulk. So that works out to ~$220/oz. On the streets you pay more for better quality. $220 on the streets better get you some good stuff. Not AAA grade, but it should be pretty good. However the more you buy, the cheaper it is in the end on a per gram basis.

Prices will definitely be something for regulators to consider. You are correct, if it's still cheaper to buy from the street guy, why bother going to the store? The good thing about that fixed government price is that you pay the same price across the board regardless of the quality. So she can get the heavy stuff (33% THC) and that will cost her the same as the lighter stuff she can get (16% THC). 33% THC on the street is pretty rare, but you'd be paying a premium. $240/oz at least but I've seen as high as $280/oz.

I heard a while back Trudeau say that that prices would have to be lowered because it wouldn't make sense to legalize weed but still have it more expensive then Joe Gangster selling it as everyone will still go see him. It will be interesting to see what kind of prices the government will set it at. Because once you add on taxes, you'd still have to be below that $10/gram threshold that street prices are set at.

That's not bad for the medicinal. I get good stuff at $130/ 1/2 oz. Not sure what it would be for a full oz from my guy, but likely around $240.

I don't think you necessarily HAVE to make it less, but it can't be too far off. If it's an extra 5-10% in price, I would still use the legal means for the convenience of it. There is a willingness to pay to avoid stuff like black markets. I think the price will end up lower, but initially it might be a bit higher if you just use market forces to determine it. If the government wants to subsidize it for the initialization to make sure the price is below the black market, that probably wouldn't be a bad idea to encourage the legal channels.


What are people 's thoughts on the future benefits of this? We see legalization start to sweep through the US and currently have a border state with legalization. What will the trade implications be. Will we be able to trade it internationally? This could be a gigantic boost to BC (moreso than it already is) and Canada overall if there is access to a world market eventually.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by MattyC

This is news to me. Plenty of stores around here selling those things.

I THINK they skirt around this by claiming they are for tobacco? But then again, there is a store called "Bongs and such" right across the street from me so who knows.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Good article on what could be done right away:
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/dana-la...nada%20Alberta

I never realized bongs and vaporizers were illegal. Was there ever a medical exemption passed for this?

I know when I got my vapourizer, it came with a little bag of pot pourri and the instructions said that it was a for vapourizering herbs to make the room smell nice. I don't know if that made it "legal", but it was kind of funny.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

I THINK they skirt around this by claiming they are for tobacco? But then again, there is a store called "Bongs and such" right across the street from me so who knows.

Yeah, if you buy something the word marijuana never comes up. They refer to it as "your product". A bong could be used to smoke anything you want, that's pretty much how they get around all the paraphernalia stuff. Who says they're using it for weed? Just like the Zig-Zag rollers. Sure some people roll their own cigarettes, but I would be willing to bet that 90% of Zig-Zag purchases are made by pot smokers. And you can just get those at gas stations/convenience stores.

[Flash Walken]

It is the obstacles and risks associated with getting the product to market that causes the pricing to escalate.

You take any commodity of agricultural product and restrict access to markets and you'll see end user prices go up.

The whole point of 'legalizing' pot and enforcing it like Alcohol is to kill the profitability of illegal sales. Right now, organized crime is involved in drugs because of the incredibly lucrative margins they get from it. Even though Tobacco, Pharmaceuticals and Firearms are legal, a black market for them exists. The reason the black market for Tobacco is small is because the margins for it are based on theft. Theft has a much higher risk to reward ratio than production does.

With theft, you're exposed to external investigative sources and an ever present supply risk. With production, you aren't making contact with external investigative sources because you are handling production, enforcement and supply in-house.

Once you remove the restrictions on production and alleviate the costs associated with protection and transport/supply, there won't be an excuse to sell it for an above average price unless the quality or the marketing is above average.

And, like alcohol, you will be able to pony up for as fine a champagne or as cheap a Colt45 as you're going to want or can afford.

It's a perfectly rational process that doesn't really require all this hand wringing.

Last year, when recreational marijuana sales opened in Washington, prices were often $400 or more per ounce, typically breaking down to $25 and even as much as $30 per gram. The cost of taxes and regulation were partly responsible for the high price of Washington weed last summer. But an even larger factor was simply that supply was too low; sellers couldn’t get their hands on enough legal marijuana from licensed growers to keep up with marketplace demand.

By the start of 2015, however, the state’s marijuana’s shortages were a thing of the past. Bloomberg News reported in January that average prices were down to $15 per gram in Washington pot shops.

And prices keep getting cheaper. This week, the Seattle Times pointed to new data from the state Liquor Control Board (LCB) that indicated the average per-gram retail price for pot in Washington had dropped to $12 in early April. “The agency was charged with creating a recreational system competitive with the gray and illicit markets,” a Washington LCB spokesperson explained. “We thought if we could get it to 12 dollars a gram, we would be competitive, and we got there in a matter of months.”

Legal marijuana prices in Washington are not cheaper than the black market, at least not yet. But legal prices are certainly in the same ballpark. While black market prices for pot vary widely, $10 per gram is a commonly cited figure. According to the website, PriceofWeed.com, which allows anyone to submit sample marijuana prices where they live, the average price for medium-quality product throughout the U.S. is $257 per ounce, which breaks down to $16 per gram. In Washington and Oregon, the average of prices submitted by users comes to around $11 to $12 per gram. This is hardly scientific data, but gives some indication that legal prices are fairly competitive with that of the black market.

This may seem surprising. After all, black market operators do business under the table. They aren’t taxed or subject to the costly regulations of legal growers and vendors. And yet, as Mark Kleiman, a professor of public policy at the UCLA Luskin School of Public Affairs, explained to my colleague Jake Davidson last summer, black market sellers must cope with a multitude of factors that make doing business costly and full of hassles: “If you have to hide, you have to pay premium wages because people risk going to prison,” said Kleiman. “You can’t invest in expensive fixed tech because you’re worried about a raid.”

Legal vendors, of course, have no such concerns, and therefore have a competitive advantage over their black market counterparts.

http://time.com/money/3830017/legal-pot-cheap-prices/

[Daradon]

I don't think anyone is hand wringing, we're just trying to figure out how it would all go down. What we could expect.

And like I said, there'd be no point in making it legal if it was going to be more expensive. I don't know why people think they'd still be able to get it cheaper elsewhere. It's not like brewing your own beer is any cheaper.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Daradon

I don't think anyone is hand wringing, we're just trying to figure out how it would all go down. What we could expect.

And like I said, there'd be no point in making it legal if it was going to be more expensive. I don't know why people think they'd still be able to get it cheaper elsewhere. It's not like brewing your own beer is any cheaper.

It will be more expensive. I'm almost sure of it.

It's going to be taxed up the ass.

People will be willing to pay more simply cause it's easier, especially if you didn't smoke before.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Daradon

I don't think anyone is hand wringing, we're just trying to figure out how it would all go down. What we could expect.

And like I said, there'd be no point in making it legal if it was going to be more expensive. I don't know why people think they'd still be able to get it cheaper elsewhere. It's not like brewing your own beer is any cheaper.

If you are only looking at the cost in dollars per gram, it probably won't ever be noticeably cheaper. If that is your expectation, you are likely going to be disappointed.

The other costs, like risking jail time or a fine, are eliminated. Consistency of product will likely increase, which will give you a better value for your money. You won't need to travel to Random Pot Dealer's apartment, and instead can pick some up wherever you guy your booze or smokes. The external costs like this are hard to quantify, and I am likely off on how big of an impact this will make, because I don't smoke pot.