any of y'all into working out?

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by blankall

Depends a bit on your experience working out and how much fat you have. If you are 50+lbs overweight and have never worked out before, it's definitely easy to both gain muscle and lose fat.

If you're an experienced weightlifter who wants to cut down to 10% bf, it's very very difficult to do so and gain muscle at once....unless like you say, you're taking the juice.

The funny thing is you have described the last 5 years for me in a nutshell- I began with an initial loss of about 50lbs- trimming down to a very lean 175ish, followed by a few bulking/cutting cycles that were each about 1 year in length. There definitely has been a positive gain in each consecutive cycle, but never anything as dramatic as the first initial loss, and each consecutive attempt seems to be more and more just gaining and then losing the same weight. That said, bulking and cutting kind of naturally works well with the flow of the year anyway- nice to be bulking and lifting heavy in the winter while trimming down for the spring and summer. All in all, I think I am most content though at the beginning of a bulk when I am getting in a decent amount of calories, not tired or drained at the gym, but still looking decent. I definitely took this most recent cut too extreme and for too long and the lightest I have have been since I was about 18 or 19... which if you consider the point of a bulk & cut to be a net gain in overall muscle mass, then I essentially failed.

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by blankall

Not entirely true.

You will naturally lose strength in some lifts as you loss mass, including fat. This will be most notable in a lift like the deadlift. Simply weighing more will result in you being able to deadlift more. Simple physics and momentum.

Which part wasn't true? the points you make are true but don't contradict what I said. In my case I gained strength but obviously was not implying a positive correlation between bodyfat and strength. Most strongmen have significant amounts of fat, most bodybuilders have very little and are much weaker.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

The funny thing is you have described the last 5 years for me in a nutshell- I began with an initial loss of about 50lbs- trimming down to a very lean 175ish, followed by a few bulking/cutting cycles that were each about 1 year in length. There definitely has been a positive gain in each consecutive cycle, but never anything as dramatic as the first initial loss, and each consecutive attempt seems to be more and more just gaining and then losing the same weight. That said, bulking and cutting kind of naturally works well with the flow of the year anyway- nice to be bulking and lifting heavy in the winter while trimming down for the spring and summer. All in all, I think I am most content though at the beginning of a bulk when I am getting in a decent amount of calories, not tired or drained at the gym, but still looking decent. I definitely took this most recent cut too extreme and for too long and the lightest I have have been since I was about 18 or 19... which if you consider the point of a bulk & cut to be a net gain in overall muscle mass, then I essentially failed.

Doing a successful cut/bulk year after year is extremely difficult. There's a reason why you don't see 5'10'' 200lbs+ lean naturals competing in bodybuilding shows. It works for me about once every 3 years. There's a lot of confusion about what's attainable naturally for most people too. That ultra full yet lean look is a product of drugs. If you look at natural bodybuilding competitions that have quality testing, the competitors are surprisingly small. It's kind of funny actually, competitors will do whatever they can to sneak by the rules, despite a competition being "natural". The laxer the testing gets, the bigger the competitors become.

Newbie gains are the bomb...or, if you've ever had to take a few months off working out, muscle memory.

[AcGold]

Yeah most pro sports has some level of cheating. If you watch an mma fight with two clean fighters it's so much slower and the fighters can take so much less damage.

What happens is nearly everyone starts cheating so a superhuman performance seems like the norm and you don't see what normal people look like.

[burnin_vernon]

I thought I had decent cardio until I tried a burpee drill I had read about somewhere a while back. You have one minute to do burpee #1. In minute 2, you have one minute to complete 2, and so on. I recall the article claiming that hitting 19 was a good goal. I got to 10. Challenge accepted.

I've never spent time on them before but burpees seem like a excellent measure of fitness. I play as a goalie once a week so I'm hoping these will help there.

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by burnin_vernon

I thought I had decent cardio until I tried a burpee drill I had read about somewhere a while back. You have one minute to do burpee #1. In minute 2, you have one minute to complete 2, and so on. I recall the article claiming that hitting 19 was a good goal. I got to 10. Challenge accepted.

I've never spent time on them before but burpees seem like a excellent measure of fitness. I play as a goalie once a week so I'm hoping these will help there.

In the Crossfit world they call that Death by Burpees. You can use the same sequence for pullups, pushups, situps...basically any exercise. As far as hitting 19 I can barely hit 20 burpees in a minute completely fresh. I would think making it to the round of 19 is something reserved for people with elite conditioning. By the end of that round you would have done 190 burpees.

[V]

So based on the conversation above, I can't seem to get bigger than I'd like because I'm a skinny tall guy? Not enough fat to convert to muscle or something?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by V

So based on the conversation above, I can't seem to get bigger than I'd like because I'm a skinny tall guy? Not enough fat to convert to muscle or something?

You don't convert fat to muscle....fat is stored energy, which gets converted to sugars upon use. Muscle is made up of amino acids.

You are just naturally skinny. If you want to build muscle, you have to eat a lot and lift a lot and be consistent with both. That Mark Ripptoe diet/workout plan (the one with the milk), that people were talking about earlier, would probably work for you.

Eat 5000 calories a day and lift consistently with compound workouts. You'll see strength gains. Do that until your body fat gets to be too much (you've put on 30-50lbs depending on how tall you actually are) and then trim down.

It's harder for tall skinny people to gain mass, because they are bigger than shorter people, and everyone typically eats the same portions. If a 5'7'' guy and a 6'7'' guy get a Big Mac meal, both have the same calories, but the taller guy has a higher maintenance amount of calories.

To put it simply, if you aren't gaining mass, you need to eat more. Make sure you get at least 150 grams of protein a day and just eat a lot.

[Drak]

There's some more to it as well. People are of different natural body types

Ectomorph (thin, high metabolism, hard gains) Mesomorph (easy muscle gains, naturally muscular) Endomorph (more fat, thicker, also easier muscle gains)

and then there are combinations of the three types.


Height doesn't necessarily equate to having one type over the other, although there are averages I'm sure. For instance, there are shorter people that are ectomorphic.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Drak

There's some more to it as well. People are of different natural body types

Ectomorph (thin, high metabolism, hard gains) Mesomorph (easy muscle gains, naturally muscular) Endomorph (more fat, thicker, also easier muscle gains)

and then there are combinations of the three types.


Height doesn't necessarily equate to having one type over the other, although there are averages I'm sure. For instance, there are shorter people that are ectomorphic.

Definitely some people gain mass more easily than others. There's no categories though. It exists along a spectrum.

The ultimate solution to not being able to gain mass (assuming no complicating health issues) is to eat more.

[ranchlandsselling]

nm

[Esoteric]

Originally Posted by blankall

Eat 5000 calories a day and lift consistently with compound workouts. You'll see strength gains. Do that until your body fat gets to be too much (you've put on 30-50lbs depending on how tall you actually are) and then trim down.

I'm sorry, but this is absurd advice for calories. There's no need to eat 5,000 calories a day. You're going to pack on a ton of fat if you do this, unless you're eating CLEN and TRENing hard.

Calculate your TDEE, add up to +500 calories and go from there. Make sure you're getting enough protein, supplement when needed, take some creatine and a multi, and you'll be fine.

[V]

Holy crap, 5000 calories a day? I don't usually go over 2500. That might help explain it.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Esoteric

I'm sorry, but this is absurd advice for calories. There's no need to eat 5,000 calories a day. You're going to pack on a ton of fat if you do this, unless you're eating CLEN and TRENing hard.

Calculate your TDEE, add up to +500 calories and go from there. Make sure you're getting enough protein, supplement when needed, take some creatine and a multi, and you'll be fine.

Depending on how tall he means by tall, 5000 is a pretty good estimate. Especially for someone new to weightlifting who is tall and a tough gainer. That'd be for someone 6'4''+ or so. Rippetoe recommends starting at 4000 a day for an average sized person. You have to remember that newbie gains are the next best thing to Cell Teching.

Maybe 5000 is excessive, but he's certainly going to need at least 4000. Also you can't just tell someone to calculate their TDEE. If he was capable of that kind of exact control, he wouldn't have trouble putting on mass in the first place.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by V

Holy crap, 5000 calories a day? I don't usually go over 2500. That might help explain it.

If you're restricting your calories, that's probably your first problem. Most of these "clean" diets are for people trying to cut down to six packs.

How old/tall are you?

[V]

I'm 6'3", 205 lbs, 36 years old. I've never really restricted calories, I just took a week and measured what I took in, and it came out to about 2500 on average. That's just normal eating habits.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by ranchlandsselling

So I'd like to drop a few lbs as my belly has grown over the years and resembles a slight muffin top. Probably 10-15 lbs (15 being the most).

I'm also reasonably strong, would like to get stronger but don't want to get any bigger. I'm bulky enough as is. Ideally I'd like to stay as muscular keep getting stronger but not get any bigger and drop to 190 lbs from 200-205 lbs.

The complications are that I can't do squats / dead lifts other than very light single leg work nor can I do leg press. This is due to back issues and weight compression on the spine. You can also forget any jumping, plyo work, running, sprinting, etc. or anything else fun.

What type am I? Reasonably bulky (not easy bulky), that can get fat too. So an Endomorph, but I would never say I put on muscle easy. Could also be a beerdomorph. I drink beer easy.

Edit, geez, I just googled endomorph, I don't look anything like that. I'm fairly trim at 205 and 6 foot I suppose, just could do with dropping 10 lbs and thought I was bulky. The description seemed to work but the images don't. Think hugh jackman if he had three kids and a day job at a desk for a few years.

My suggestion would be to see an Active Rehabilitation expert who can provide a workout routine that will allow you to work around your injuries. If you are looking to lose weight, eat fewer calories but maintain protein.

[opendoor]

Somatotypes are really just old pseudo science that persists for some reason. Like most outdated theories there's some basis of fact in there, but they're really just huge oversimplifications and ultimately stereotypes. In fact, the original theories argued that one could deduce a person's temperament and character based on which body type they fit into, which is preposterous.

As for gaining muscle, there are tons of calculators out there that will tell you how many calories and how much protein to eat for muscle gain based on your BMR and activity level, but they're only guidelines. The only surefire way to do it is to stick to a program and then rely on feedback (weight, strength, appearance, body fat measurements, etc.) to modify that to suit you. If you're not gaining strength and weight at a certain calorie level then eat more. Or if you're gaining too much fat too quickly then you can cut back a bit on calories.

And losing weight is the same. If you're not losing weight and dropping fat even though you're eating what a TDEE calculator told you to in order to drop pounds then you need to modify what you're doing by eating less or exercising more.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by V

I'm 6'3", 205 lbs, 36 years old. I've never really restricted calories, I just took a week and measured what I took in, and it came out to about 2500 on average. That's just normal eating habits.

Ahh...sorry, I assumed you were in your early 20s. 5000 calories would be excessive.

I'd up it to 4000 though, at least for a month, and I'd also take a few sessions with an experienced personal trainer who can show you how to do lifts like squats and deadlifts properly. Make sure you go to someone with a real degree and experience (IE not a gym salesman). It's worth spending the extra $500-$1000 now to avoid a serious back/leg injury later on. Tall people generally tend to be more susceptible to back injuries.

[Esoteric]

Originally Posted by blankall

Depending on how tall he means by tall, 5000 is a pretty good estimate. Especially for someone new to weightlifting who is tall and a tough gainer. That'd be for someone 6'4''+ or so. Rippetoe recommends starting at 4000 a day for an average sized person. You have to remember that newbie gains are the next best thing to Cell Teching.

Maybe 5000 is excessive, but he's certainly going to need at least 4000. Also you can't just tell someone to calculate their TDEE. If he was capable of that kind of exact control, he wouldn't have trouble putting on mass in the first place.

Sure, you're going to gain muscle, but you're going to pack on fat. A ton of fat. If you're a new lifter, you'll likely get discouraged since you're becoming fat, start to cut, and then just stall progress.

Depending on your size, around 3,000 calories would be an absolute maximum amount of calories someone should eat when they're starting out to gain strength and mass. That's a properly tracked, 3,000 calories. 5,000 calories is way too excessive, and it's a reckless bulk that will have you put on a ton of extra weight.

IIFYM has some good calculators that should be used as a benchmark for what to consume - http://iifym.com/iifym-calculator/

Looking at V's stats, 3,000 calories would be a perfect amount to start with.