Flames at Pride reaction

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

frankly I think resorting to public shaming is for those not intelligent enough to actually make a difference. It's like using guilt to get your way in a relationship, it's a winning way to happiness!

Frankly I don't care. The fact that this is an issue in 2015 is ridiculous.

Sometimes only bluntness works when you are dealing with stupidity and ignorance of this magnitude. You often need to tailor your approach to your audience. People that hold these views are IMO, small minded simpletons.

They get what they deserve.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Frankly I don't care. The fact that this is an issue in 2015 is ridiculous.

Sometimes only bluntness works when you are dealing with stupidity and ignorance of this magnitude. You often need to tailor your approach to your audience. People that hold these views are IMO, small minded simpletons.

They get what they deserve.

fighting stupid with stupid, what a brilliant plan

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Yes, and having public figures, and childhood heroes, visibly support these issues will result in those kids telling their parents that what they say is not cool. I know I have done it, from a pretty young age too (probably 13 or 14). Bigoted and prejudiced people keeping their outdated opinions to themselves is already progress.

If one kid that would otherwise be a homophobe or racist doesn't become one because of things like Pride parades, then they're worth the time.

I never suggested they weren't worth the time, I am saying people are just hiding their thoughts because of fear of public shaming. It's still going to be present, the difference will be you have to dig to find the piece of ####.

Public shaming is a terrible thing and a completely unhealthy thing for our society to do.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

fighting stupid with stupid, what a brilliant plan

That's not fighting stupid with stupid at all. What's your angle here? You seem to be strongly arguing for those that have issues with the LGBT community.

Are you part of the group you're defending here, another guy "just fighting for the rights of people to have a different opinion on the progression of the LBGT community"?.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

fighting stupid with stupid, what a brilliant plan

Because subtly has worked so well and the status quo seems to be clearing this up no worries.


Every time, this topic comes up on this board there are those that once again post against equality and Human Rights (that is not direct at you per se).


Look at that idiot in the story I posted, she has no problem being public about her hatred of Human Rights. If she takes the "battle" public she cant' complain when the counter-attack is public.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by jayswin

That's not fighting stupid with stupid at all. What's your angle here? You seem to be strongly arguing for those that have issues with the LGBT community.

Are you part of the group you're defending here, another guy "just fighting for the rights of people to have a different opinion on the progression of the LBGT community"?.

It's really not hard to see my angle. I bluntly stated it.

Public shaming is wrong and unhealthy. It's like using guilt on someone to get your way, you might get it for now, but it just ####s things up even worse in the long run.

[jayswin]

I don't think you know what public shaming is. People calling out others for outdated, bigoted views on a discussion board isn't public shaming.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I don't think you know what public shaming is. People calling out others for outdated, bigoted views on a discussion board isn't public shaming.

My god, can you not follow a discussion?

I stated I think the change of opinion is not as great as some people think because people have a fear of public shaming. Then someone showed support for public shaming and I countered with why I feel public shaming is a bad thing.

It's like you are trying to not understand

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

My god, can you not follow a discussion?

I stated I think the change of opinion is not as great as some people think because people have a fear of public shaming. Then someone showed support for public shaming and I countered with why I feel public shaming is a bad thing.

It's like you are trying to not understand

People with outdated and hateful opinions that express them publicly SHOULD be shamed. A public display like a pride parade gaining enough popularity and support that it forces bigoted people to keep it to themselves is a far cry from people doing an interweb pile-on complete with personal attacks and threats.

No one is banging on these people's doors with signs that say "Accept gay or go away!", or threatening violence on them. It's is their new-found knowledge that their opinion may not be in line with the progression of everyone else that makes them keep it to themselves, and that's a good thing. That shaming isn't public, it's their own shame that leads them to keep quiet. At best, it shows an actual change in that person, at worst, it keeps hateful rhetoric out of our culture.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by MattyC

People with outdated and hateful opinions that express them publicly SHOULD be shamed. A public display like a pride parade gaining enough popularity and support that it forces bigoted people to keep it to themselves is a far cry from people doing an interweb pile-on complete with personal attacks and threats.

No one is banging on these people's doors with signs that say "Accept gay or go away!", or threatening violence on them. It's is their new-found knowledge that their opinion may not be in line with the progression of everyone else that makes them keep it to themselves, and that's a good thing. That shaming isn't public, it's their own shame that leads them to keep quiet. At best, it shows an actual change in that person, at worst, it keeps hateful rhetoric out of our culture.

Using guilt to accomplish anything does not work in the long run. People who use guilt are people who don't have enough intelligence to make a valid argument to help the person see their point of view. People catch onto that and they fight back, all public shaming will lead to is a whole lot of people with anger bubbling under the surface waiting to explode.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Using guilt to accomplish anything does not work in the long run. People who use guilt are people who don't have enough intelligence to make a valid argument to help the person see their point of view. People catch onto that and they fight back, all public shaming will lead to is a whole lot of people with anger bubbling under the surface waiting to explode.

You're missing the point I think, and that is that, no one is using guilt to shame these people into hiding. The Pride parade is not meant to guilt anyone into anything. It's meant to give gay people a time where they can be free to be themselves with no fear of persecution. And, since that has largely become the case in a place like Canada, the parade is more celebratory than protest (as it used to be).

If someone feels guilty for being homophobic because they see Pride gaining acceptance in our culture, that's their own issue.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by MattyC

You're missing the point I think, and that is that, no one is using guilt to shame these people into hiding. The Pride parade is not meant to guilt anyone into anything. It's meant to give gay people a time where they can be free to be themselves with no fear of persecution. If someone feels guilty for being homophobic because they see Pride gaining acceptance in our culture, that's their own issue.

Do you even read the posts you quote? Read up a bit and I state what I was talking about with public shaming, it had nothing to do with the purpose of the parade.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Do you even read the posts you quote? Read up a bit and I state what I was talking about with public shaming, it had nothing to do with the purpose of the parade.

Fair enough, I don't know who the "Dear Fat People" girl is or what happened with her. But I believe my point still stands and that is that, if people stop their bigoted behavior due to a fear of being shamed for it (whether that threat actually exists or not), completely depends on their own feeling of an issue. If they really felt in the right, then the possibility of public shaming wouldn't bother them. The fear does not make the threat real, it only means that they realize they are vastly outnumbered in their opinion. Same for guilt, if someone keeps their outdated opinions quiet because they fear being guilted for it, doesn't that say more about how they feel about it than anyone else? They obviously realize that these prejudices are not OK in modern society if they are changing their behavior because of the reaction they think they will receive.

If the fear that someone on the street might shame you for littering, or the thought that you would feel guilty for throwing a piece of trash on the ground, prevents you from doing so, isn't that a good thing? Isn't that exactly how anything changes culturally? Is a guy coming up to you after you throw a candy wrapper on the ground to say "Hey man, can you not litter? Thanks" public shaming? If I went up to a person who just shouted fa**** and said "hey you really shouldn't use words like that" a public shaming?

In fact, I would argue the person voicing the proper opinion in both those scenarios is more at risk of being verbally (or possibly physically) abused than the person who committed the act in the first place. Telling someone their wrong doesn't have to be hostile.

[Stay Golden]

Why does it even matter who or any of the Flames players that were present at the Pride parade. The Pride parade is about equality and being non judgemental to a choice. The right to choose and not be oppressed. The Flames could have chose to send Burke and Harvey the hound and no players.
Every stinking year the same posters make a big deal that player A was there and player b,c, and d were not.
Do people get irate that thousands of athletes did not participate in the 2015 million man march to stand up against racism. No, It is great some players "chose" to be participants in the Pride parade, but this hounding of who did or didn't ride in the Pride parade is very petty.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Why does it even matter who or any of the Flames players that were present at the Pride parade. The Pride parade is about equality and being non judgemental to a choice. The right to choose and not be oppressed. The Flames could have chose to send Burke and Harvey the hound and no players.
Every stinking year the same posters make a big deal that player A was there and player b,c, and d were not.
Do people get irate that thousands of athletes did not participate in the 2015 million man march to stand up against racism. No, It is great some players "chose" to be participants in the Pride parade, but this hounding of who did or didn't ride in the Pride parade is very petty.

Huh? When has this debate ever been about which players chose to attend and which didn't, and then shaming the players that didn't? Yours is literally the first post on that in this entire thread and has nothing to do with what anyone has been arguing about.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Using guilt to accomplish anything does not work in the long run. People who use guilt are people who don't have enough intelligence to make a valid argument to help the person see their point of view. People catch onto that and they fight back, all public shaming will lead to is a whole lot of people with anger bubbling under the surface waiting to explode.

As bigots like Kim Davis and family have amply demonstrated this week, there is literally nothing that anyone can say that will change their hate-filled minds.

People with such deeply held delusions cannot be reasoned with.

But hey, you are clearly the smartest guy in the room. Why don't you tell us how this should work?

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Using guilt to accomplish anything does not work in the long run.

Can you provide an example of this? Ideally it would be an example on a societal level, but even a few personal examples would suffice.

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Using guilt to accomplish anything does not work in the long run.

You must not have children to watch this happen to, or be married (to a woman), have a mother or a mother-in-law because well - most mothers are the head travel agents for guilt trips and they're often very effective and long lasting.


(did I need to use green font there?)

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Not even funny at all.

Subjective assessment.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Im sure the reasons why people do it are all over the board. Some very admirable and some despicable and a range of reasons all in between. Honest question though what is the military currently involved in that you would see as being absolutely neccesarry and for the country?

This song is performed by#Propagandhiand appears on the album#Supporting Caste (2009).

Dear Ron MacLean, dear Coach's Corner
I'm writing in order
For someone to explain to my niece the distinction
Between these mandatory pre-game group rites of submission

And the rallies at Nuremburg, specifically the function
The ritual serves in conjunction
With what everybody knows is, in the end, a kid's game
I'm just appealing to your sense of fair play

When I say she's puzzled by
This incessant pressure for her to not defy
Collective will and yellow-ribboned lapels
As the soldiers inexplicably repel

Down from the arena rafters
Which, if not so insane, would be grounds for screaming laughter

Dear Ron MacLean, I wouldn't bother with these questions
If I didn't sense some spiritual connection
We may not be the same but it's not like we're from different planets
We both love this game so much we can hardly ####ing stand it

Alberta-born, prairie-raised
Ain't a sheet of ice north of Fargo I ain't played
From Penhold to the Gatineau
Every fond memory of childhood that I know

Is somehow connected to the culture of
This game, I just can't let it go

I guess it comes down to
What kind of world you want to live in
Diversity is disagreement, disagreement is treason
Well, don't be surprised if we find ourselves reaping

A strange and bitter fruit that that sad old man beside you
Keeps feeding to young minds as virtue
It takes a village to raise a child, just a flag to raze the children
Until they're nothing more than ballast for fulfilling

A madman's dream
Of a paradise
Complexity
Reduced to black and white

How do I
Protect her from
This cult of death?