Flames at Pride reaction

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by the2bears

For me it's a combination of two things:

- It seems less about thanking and appreciating the veterans than it does about celebrating a military culture. A culture that is being built up more and more, at least in the US.
- If we (the societal "we") really cared that much about them, wouldn't we properly fund veterans affairs and various other things for them? Things they *really* need? Again, speaking about what I see down here.

I agree with this 100%, and keeping on point with the thread topic: I have no problem with the Flames "supporting the troops" in any way they so choose.

[Mister Yamoto]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Largely, I hate the politicization of sports in general. But honestly, what makes being a soldier so special that they deserve special recognition at literally every sporting event in North America? Why not fire fighters, police officers, nurses, teachers, cancer survivors, rape victims, students, plumbers, etc.?

I've seen every one of those groups that you mention recognized at sporting events. Even plumbers get their moment during the Pete the plumber Macho Man segments. And I don't see soldiers getting special recognition at literally every sporting event in North America. Not the games I go to.

It seem really fitting that we are using the Flames at Pride thread to air out our grievances about honouring war vets. Maybe the Flames could drop military night and have gays in the military night?

The two fighter jets that flew over Mcmahon during the anthem yesterday? Put me in the that was awesome group.

And giving veterans Remembrance day is not "more than enough". It's not nearly enough. Not even close.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

I've seen every one of those groups that you mention recognized at sporting events. Even plumbers get their moment during the Pete the plumber Macho Man segments. I don't see soldiers getting special recognition at literally every sporting event in North America. Not the games I go to.

It seem really fitting that we are using the Flames at Pride thread to air out our grievances about honouring war vets. Maybe the Flames could drop military night and have gays in the military night?

I think this is an excellent idea. As to your first paragraph, I do believe that the vast majority of pre-game rituals do have an emphasis on our armed forces.

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

The two fighter jets that flew over Mcmahon during the anthem yesterday? Put me in the that was awesome group.

I don't think you will find anyone to disagree with you, but not because the flyover engenders a strong sense of support for the military and a welling of national pride (I'm sure this does happen for some, but this is certainly not what I find "awesome" about the flyover). Rather to the contrary, it's a spectacle, and spectacles at sporting events are terrific.

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

And giving veterans Remembrance day is not "more than enough". It's not nearly enough. Not even close.

Why not?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

I agree with this 100%, and keeping on point with the thread topic: I have no problem with the Flames "supporting the troops" in any way they so choose.

I wouldn't have a problem with it either, depending upon the context and purpose for said support. To that end, what does "supporting the military" actually mean? I think if there were charitable avenues for support, that would go a lot further and mean a lot more than the obligatory salutations before games. If soldiers do have it as bad as some have suggested, then surely this would be a more fruitful form of social improvement.

Is there a way to "support soldiers" without supporting the military? Because I could get behind that.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I wouldn't have a problem with it either, depending upon the context and purpose for said support. To that end, what does "supporting the military" actually mean? I think if there were charitable avenues for support, that would go a lot further and mean a lot more than the obligatory salutations before games. If soldiers do have it as bad as some have suggested, then surely this would be a more fruitful form of social improvement.

Is there a way to "support soldiers" without supporting the military? Because I could get behind that.

The "military" doesn't make decisions. We vote for politicians who tell the "military" what to do. The military carries out tasks that the government tells them to do. The military is simply the entire group of soldiers at once. So why are you against the military, but support soldiers?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I wouldn't have a problem with it either, depending upon the context and purpose for said support. To that end, what does "supporting the military" actually mean? I think if there were charitable avenues for support, that would go a lot further and mean a lot more than the obligatory salutations before games. If soldiers do have it as bad as some have suggested, then surely this would be a more fruitful form of social improvement.

It isn't a "suggestion" it is a fact.

The pay is low, often the postings are ####ty. Things have increased significantly for the military members and families, but it is a tuff life for both the member, their spouse and children.

Is there a way to "support soldiers" without supporting the military? Because I could get behind that.

They are one in the same.

You can't be in the army but not of the army.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

The "military" doesn't make decisions. We vote for politicians who tell the "military" what to do. The military carries out tasks that the government tells them to do. The military is simply the entire group of soldiers at once. So why are you against the military, but support soldiers?

That's fair.

I guess I would say I support soldiers just as much as I support anyone else who is doing their bast to make a good life for themselves, their families, and their communities in a socially productive manner. The "support" I would advocate would be the same as for anyone in our culture who encounters inequity, marginalisation and surmountable difficulties of all sorts.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

That's fair.

I guess I would say I support soldiers just as much as I support anyone else who is doing their bast to make a good life for themselves, their families, and their communities in a socially productive manner. The "support" I would advocate would be the same as for anyone in our culture who encounters inequity, marginalisation and surmountable difficulties of all sorts.

In my opinion, the soldier of today and of years past both deserve recognition and support for their efforts. As undercover said, they sacrifice much in terms of family and such, for minimal pay. Why do they sacrifice so much time with their families?

I like to believe they do it because they believe so strongly in community and country, that they feel serving the broader Canadian public is important enough to spend less time with family. To me, that's very admirable.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

In my opinion, the soldier of today and of years past both deserve recognition and support for their efforts. As undercover said, they sacrifice much in terms of family and such, for minimal pay. Why do they sacrifice so much time with their families?

I like to believe they do it because they believe so strongly in community and country, that they feel serving the broader Canadian public is important enough to spend less time with family. To me, that's very admirable.

and you get to blow #### up.......

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

In my opinion, the soldier of today and of years past both deserve recognition and support for their efforts. As undercover said, they sacrifice much in terms of family and such, for minimal pay. Why do they sacrifice so much time with their families?

I like to believe they do it because they believe so strongly in community and country, that they feel serving the broader Canadian public is important enough to spend less time with family. To me, that's very admirable.

Im sure the reasons why people do it are all over the board. Some very admirable and some despicable and a range of reasons all in between. Honest question though what is the military currently involved in that you would see as being absolutely neccesarry and for the country?

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Im sure the reasons why people do it are all over the board. Some very admirable and some despicable and a range of reasons all in between. Honest question though what is the military currently involved in that you would see as being absolutely neccesarry and for the country?

Obviously a loaded question. But right now, there is nothing critical to the safety of Canada.

However, full time soldiers spend a lot of time away from their families, even during peacetime for training or other humanitarian missions and such. Why do they do it? I spend time away from my family for work, and I expect to be paid pretty good for that sacrifice. Plus, the only safety hazard of my job is driving and flying. I don't need to be honored because everything I do, I do for me and my family, no one else.

I think a soldier feels a sense of community and so puts the needs of the country ahead of his own. The world can change very quickly, and they are the first to answer the bell.

EDIT: North Korea is probably the most critical safety concern given their ability to launch missiles. But your point stands.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Im sure the reasons why people do it are all over the board. Some very admirable and some despicable and a range of reasons all in between. Honest question though what is the military currently involved in that you would see as being absolutely neccesarry and for the country?

Actually it might be better to have the thread split, as this has gone to far away from the OT, which is deserving of focus.

[polak]

Wow what a gem of a thread. Why on earth would people have a negative opinion on this subject (both the pride parade or the military night)? Either you're proud of the Flames for supporting these groups or I guess you could be indifferent, because it literally has ZERO impact on your life, what so ever...

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Despicable?

I'm positive that the majority of people who become soldiers do it to fight for their country, but I know one guy who straight up said he joined because he wanted to kill people.

That would qualify as despicable in my eyes. And I'm sure he's not the only one.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I'm positive that the majority of people who become soldiers do it to fight for their country, but I know one guy who straight up said he joined because he wanted to kill people.

That would qualify as despicable in my eyes. And I'm sure he's not the only one.

Listen the military is just a microcosm of society.

The guy you mentioned sounds like an #######. Believe it or not those people don't do too well in the military.


He also sounds like is is just swinging his penis.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by polak

Wow what a gem of a thread. Why on earth would people have a negative opinion on this subject (both the pride parade or the military night)? Either you're proud of the Flames for supporting these groups or I guess you could be indifferent, because it literally has ZERO impact on your life, what so ever...

This thread delivers

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Obviously a loaded question. But right now, there is nothing critical to the safety of Canada.

However, full time soldiers spend a lot of time away from their families, even during peacetime for training or other humanitarian missions and such. Why do they do it? I spend time away from my family for work, and I expect to be paid pretty good for that sacrifice. Plus, the only safety hazard of my job is driving and flying. I don't need to be honored because everything I do, I do for me and my family, no one else.

I think a soldier feels a sense of community and so puts the needs of the country ahead of his own. The world can change very quickly, and they are the first to answer the bell.

EDIT: North Korea is probably the most critical safety concern given their ability to launch missiles. But your point stands.

I do agree that if something does happen they will be the first to answer the call. That is definitely a sacrifice. I also greatly admire people who chose to put the betterment of the world before themselves. I think everyone could take a lesson in that. I just look at how many millions of innocent people have been killed in the middle east and how millions of families have been completely ruined. Entire communities and cities destroyed. Its honestly disgusting. And for what? So I guess I'm just cautious to support anything that could even be remotely linked to that or helping something that is the furthest thing from noble. Blind devotion for the military plays a part in turning a blind eye to what is actually going on over there. Which doesn't mean there aren't true heros of war that do deserve recognition. I just think sometimes it all gets lumped together and that the military is seen as always fighting for our freedom and protecting us from evil. But ya I agree going off topic. Just wanted to reply since you took the time to reply to my question. Undercoverbrother you seem to have first hand experience so if you did want to message me your thoughts feel free.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Listen the military is just a microcosm of society.

The guy you mentioned sounds like an #######. Believe it or not those people don't do too well in the military.


He also sounds like is is just swinging his penis.

For sure and I respect our military greatly. I only posted that because you responded to the idea that there could be dispicable reasons to join the military.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by polak

Wow what a gem of a thread. Why on earth would people have a negative opinion on this subject (both the pride parade or the military night)? Either you're proud of the Flames for supporting these groups or I guess you could be indifferent, because it literally has ZERO impact on your life, what so ever...

What's the harm in a little discussion? Wisdom is often found in the unlikeliest of places.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

I've seen every one of those groups that you mention recognized at sporting events. Even plumbers get their moment during the Pete the plumber Macho Man segments. And I don't see soldiers getting special recognition at literally every sporting event in North America. Not the games I go to.

Plumbers get their moment when one of them pays for a promotion?

And yes, you see soldiers honoured at every sporting event. We even do it here where we honour a soldier - who is basically just standing in as a proxy for the military as a whole - at nearly every Flames game.

That is most certainly not what happens for any other group. I can't even remember the last time we had a single night dedicated to police/fire/first responders at a Flames game. We did give construction workers a pre-season game for their work in restoring the Dome after the flood though.

Respecting the military as it exists today, and respecting the veterans who served in the past does not require that public sporting events become a pulpit for nationalistic jingoism.