Seattle Will Raise Minimum Wage to $15/hr By 2020; Automatic Annual 2.4% Increases

[peter12]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Dude, it was a joke about how peter12 constantly posts vague quotes from various long-dead philosophers, and then proceeds to obfuscate and incoherently argue his point based on said quote.

Yeesh.

Hard to explain anything nuanced to the half-educated. Frustrating. I sympathize with Shawnski.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by jammies

No, just peter12, for his lack of same.

You're heading down his path of "look what this guy said about this!" too. Use facts and logic to prove a point, use quotes and other people's thoughts on the subject to *illustrate* a point. Using the latter as a short-cut to understanding just means there is no real understanding there to be had.

What an uncivilized thing to say.

[nik-]

haha oh peter12, your life is so superior.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by nik-

haha oh peter12, your life is so superior.

I am wearing a collared shirt under a sweater with leather patches on the elbows.

[chemgear]

Missed this thread back in the day. Am back in Seattle right now and have been to this city several times over the last decade. Totally not saying that any of the following is a result of the wage increase but man do things seem really run down here versus the recent past.

Mainly downtown/convention area as a tourist comparison. So many buildings here fenced off. Restaurants closed up recently and so many blocks literally seem like they have totally closed shop even in the core. Nothing open, glass windows covered up all over the place. Hotel across the street is literally boarded up and weeds growing on the roof. Lots of empty retail spots in malls as well. The Japanese Diaso dollar store moved to a smaller location in the mall and halved the staff at West Lake Center and the food court there is a an absolute dead shadow of itself. Even the McDonalds closed down there.

Early in the wage increase cycle to be sure but I didn't think the city was this economically sketchy; at least in the convention area/downtown core.

[rubecube]

I go to Seattle at least once a year. This stuff was happening long before the wage increase was announced.

[stampsx2]

I wonder how much increaseing the minimum wage has on outsourcing labour overseas. My guess is quite a lot.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I go to Seattle at least once a year. This stuff was happening long before the wage increase was announced.

Yeah, I have no good pulse on that.

[vanisleflamesfan]

Great. We have created an economy where hundreds of thousands of University educated young people every year have NO job options OTHER than retail or other minimum wage SERVICE INDUSTRY jobs.

So if this is the economy that we want, we have to pay them a living wage. The other option is to have hundreds of thousands of University students emigrate to "third world" countries every single year to make 8 cents per hour making the cheap plastic crap that you buy at Sprawl-Mart.

This is the economy that you Neo-Cons wanted so... pay for it or endure a country with 300,000 rich oil workers and no on in the service industry.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by vanisleflamesfan

Great. We have created an economy where hundreds of thousands of University educated young people every year have NO job options OTHER than retail or other minimum wage SERVICE INDUSTRY jobs.

So if this is the economy that we want, we have to pay them a living wage. The other option is to have hundreds of thousands of University students emigrate to "third world" countries every single year to make 8 cents per hour making the cheap plastic crap that you buy at Sprawl-Mart.

This is the economy that you Neo-Cons wanted so... pay for it or endure a country with 300,000 rich oil workers and no on in the service industry.

You know, that's actually true. We've raised a generation of useless university grads. If they don't get the job they "deserve" they just set up camp in your local park a complain about it. A third option might have been for some of these poor dears to realize that jobs are not the one and only option for "smart" people with university degrees. Eventually one of them is going to have to create their own job, possibly hire some fellow useless people with degrees. Option one will always be there...just wait for minimum wage to go up and vote for the useless party that best represents their useless existence.

[quote]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I go to Seattle at least once a year. This stuff was happening long before the wage increase was announced.

The question is will $15 minimum wage help? It's supposed to.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

You know, that's actually true. We've raised a generation of useless university grads. If they don't get the job they "deserve" they just set up camp in your local park a complain about it. A third option might have been for some of these poor dears to realize that jobs are not the one and only option for "smart" people with university degrees. Eventually one of them is going to have to create their own job, possibly hire some fellow useless people with degrees. Option one will always be there...just wait for minimum wage to go up and vote for the useless party that best represents their useless existence.

This is absolute crap. University grads are taking every job they can. Where did you get this tripe or did you invent it yourself?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

I wonder how much increaseing the minimum wage has on outsourcing labour overseas. My guess is quite a lot.

Zero impact. Name a minimum wage job that can be outsourced? You'll be hard pressed.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

This is absolute crap. University grads are taking every job they can. Where did you get this tripe or did you invent it yourself?

Actually the post I was responding to said that. But probably the same place you're getting your "University grads are taking every job they can" "statistic". That may be true and if so, that's the problem. They're taking jobs instead of having even the first thought of what to do instead of taking a job. Eventually we're going to run out of jobs. My problem is how useless degrees are for what people actually want to accomplish in life. 80% of occupy wall street (unyc study) had university degrees. They may have been employed but obviously they were not achieving what they had hoped. $15 an hour isn't going to solve that.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Actually the post I was responding to said that. But probably the same place you're getting your "University grads are taking every job they can" "statistic". That may be true and if so, that's the problem. They're taking jobs instead of having even the first thought of what to do instead of taking a job. Eventually we're going to run out of jobs. My problem is how useless degrees are for what people actually want to accomplish in life. 80% of occupy wall street (unyc study) had university degrees. They may have been employed but obviously they were not achieving what they had hoped. $15 an hour isn't going to solve that.

That's great and all buy when you're desperately trying to pay off your student loans, it can be pretty daunting to also consider starting your own business.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

We've raised a generation of useless university grads. If they don't get the job they "deserve" they just set up camp in your local park a complain about it. A third option might have been for some of these poor dears to realize that jobs are not the one and only option for "smart" people with university degrees. Eventually one of them is going to have to create their own job, possibly hire some fellow useless people with degrees. Option one will always be there...just wait for minimum wage to go up and vote for the useless party that best represents their useless...

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Actually the post I was responding to said that. But probably the same place you're getting your "University grads are taking every job they can" "statistic". That may be true and if so, that's the problem. They're taking jobs instead of having even the first thought of what to do instead of taking a job. Eventually we're going to run out of jobs. My problem is how useless degrees are for what people actually want to accomplish in life. 80% of occupy wall street (unyc study) had university degrees. They may have been employed but obviously they were not achieving what they had hoped. $15 an hour isn't going to solve that.

Not sure if you're bitter, but the whole condescending thing towards an entire generation of grads comes off that way.

If I understand your point, you think degrees are useless, so you think the people who get them are useless, and that those useless people shouldn't take the first job offered, shouldn't complain about not getting the job they WANT, and should apparently start a business that is somehow going to be worth starting, even though you think everything about them is useless? Forgive me if I don't "get it" :P

$15 an hour is about a giving your lowest earners a chance though. Making sure Uni kids are paid fairly is not the main concern.

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

You know, that's actually true. We've raised a generation of useless university grads. If they don't get the job they "deserve" they just set up camp in your local park a complain about it. A third option might have been for some of these poor dears to realize that jobs are not the one and only option for "smart" people with university degrees. Eventually one of them is going to have to create their own job, possibly hire some fellow useless people with degrees. Option one will always be there...just wait for minimum wage to go up and vote for the useless party that best represents their useless existence

I essentially work slave labor, never got the job I worked for for 4 years, the job I went in debt to attempt to earn that had 5 of my 40 graduating class in a highly technical science that was booming at the time of my enrollment.

Please tell me how not wanting to starve to death is complaining, please, if you want to make such a statement you should explain it. Should I just not have wanted the job I worked for? Then I wouldn't have deserved a job and complainedd about it? Such an entitled generation for sure. Not wanting to struggle in debt forever and all. I guess I shouldn't have gone to school like everyone in my life urged me to, thanks for the pro advice

[4X4]

Originally Posted by vanisleflamesfan

Great. We have created an economy where hundreds of thousands of University educated young people every year have NO job options OTHER than retail or other minimum wage SERVICE INDUSTRY jobs.

So if this is the economy that we want, we have to pay them a living wage. The other option is to have hundreds of thousands of University students emigrate to "third world" countries every single year to make 8 cents per hour making the cheap plastic crap that you buy at Sprawl-Mart.

This is the economy that you Neo-Cons wanted so... pay for it or endure a country with 300,000 rich oil workers and no on in the service industry.

Drunk post?

[Finger Cookin]

This is an older article from June 2014, but it's still a good read.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...4#.VX85i_lVhBc

Here's some excerpts, but I encourage you to read the whole thing.

On June 19, 2013, Bloomberg published an article I wrote called “The Capitalist’s Case for a $15 Minimum Wage.” Forbes labeled it “Nick Hanauer’s near insane” proposal. And yet, just weeks after it was published, my friend David Rolf, a Service Employees International Union organizer, roused fast-food workers to go on strike around the country for a $15 living wage. Nearly a year later, the city of Seattle passed a $15 minimum wage. And just 350 days after my article was published, Seattle Mayor Ed Murray signed that ordinance into law. How could this happen, you ask?

It happened because we reminded the masses that they are the source of growth and prosperity, not us rich guys. We reminded them that when workers have more money, businesses have more customers—and need more employees. We reminded them that if businesses paid workers a living wage rather than poverty wages, taxpayers wouldn’t have to make up the difference. And when we got done, 74 percent of likely Seattle voters in a recent poll agreed that a $15 minimum wage was a swell idea.

...

Most of you probably think that the $15 minimum wage in Seattle is an insane departure from rational policy that puts our economy at great risk. But in Seattle, our current minimum wage of $9.32 is already nearly 30 percent higher than the federal minimum wage. And has it ruined our economy yet? Well, trickle-downers, look at the data here: The two cities in the nation with the highest rate of job growth by small businesses are San Francisco and Seattle. Guess which cities have the highest minimum wage? San Francisco and Seattle. The fastest-growing big city in America? Seattle. Fifteen dollars isn’t a risky untried policy for us. It’s doubling down on the strategy that’s already allowing our city to kick your city’s ass.

It makes perfect sense if you think about it: If a worker earns $7.25 an hour, which is now the national minimum wage, what proportion of that person’s income do you think ends up in the cash registers of local small businesses? Hardly any. That person is paying rent, ideally going out to get subsistence groceries at Safeway, and, if really lucky, has a bus pass. But she’s not going out to eat at restaurants. Not browsing for new clothes. Not buying flowers on Mother’s Day.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Actually the post I was responding to said that. But probably the same place you're getting your "University grads are taking every job they can" "statistic". That may be true and if so, that's the problem. They're taking jobs instead of having even the first thought of what to do instead of taking a job. Eventually we're going to run out of jobs. My problem is how useless degrees are for what people actually want to accomplish in life. 80% of occupy wall street (unyc study) had university degrees. They may have been employed but obviously they were not achieving what they had hoped. $15 an hour isn't going to solve that.

Despite your total ignorance about how difficult it is to enter the job market or start your own business with sky high labour and capital markets, you do have a point about their being too many useless degrees out there.

Canada and the US are one of the few countries without centralized education systems. In Europe, education is typically cheaper, but they severely limit the number of students in each field. They have organizations that look at the job market and allocate a specific number of spots in each field, based on demand in the economy.

They also divert students into more trade orientated programs in high school.

In North America we have a university system, which teaches people that if you don't get a degree your somehow less worthy of a person. Now we have unemployed graduates, and we import in tradesmen from Europe.

[OMG!WTF!]

I just find it kind of sad that university has become what it is. You go in to debt, both financial and time, and the great expectation is a job at the end. When the job doesn't happen I find our typical fallback positions highly annoying....it's the 1%, it's the conservatives, it's nepotism, it's minimum wage, it's tax free savings accounts, etc. There is zero discussion of life without a job.

Anyway, university is a mistake for most people but that's a different topic.

Seattle minimum wage increase isn't too good yet. Most restaurant job losses since 2009 while Washington state has added restaurant jobs as has the country in general. The one success story is a restaurant that immediately jumped to $15 and hour, raised prices, discouraged tipping and now employees are better off. That's a head scratcher.