Seattle Will Raise Minimum Wage to $15/hr By 2020; Automatic Annual 2.4% Increases

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Azure

While this is true, and Walmart is a great example of a company whose business model takes advantage of government welfare, I prefer if people would just stop shopping at Walmart, and instead start supporting companies like Costco who treat their employees fairly well.

Walmart really is an evil company.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by GGG

The person I pay to do a job shouldnt need to rely on government subsidies to live. I mean basic no car, shared living type of arrangement. Whatever that number is minimum wage should support it. I dont think it does in Calgary. $10 per hour is 20k per year before tax so that is probably 17k after deductions. Is $1500 per month enough to live off of?

If the employee's market value (i.e. productivity) is below $15/hour, and we consider that to be below a livable wage, I actually think it's far more reasonable for society in general to subsidize that person than the person who employs them. The employer could choose to simply not employ that person, and then society loses whatever productivity they may have contributed below the minimum wage threshold.

[Shawnski]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

<snip>.

Keep reading his works. Lots of stuff on YouTube. The guy has devoted his life to this. And he isn't the only one.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Shawnski

Keep reading his works. Lots of stuff on YouTube. The guy has devoted his life to this. And he isn't the only one.

What? So you challenge everyone to debate you on this, then someone does and you tell them to keep looking into it themselves?

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Shawnski

And none of you have responded to the content of my post. Nice.

I'm gonna back you up here: regardless of whether or not you missed a joke (which I'll say was likely intended to be a joke based on truth), it doesn't make your arguments any less valid - and I do find a lot of validity in them.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by flameswin

What? So you challenge everyone to debate you on this, then someone does and you tell them to keep looking into it themselves?

shawn12

[strombad]

Originally Posted by flameswin

We still have music stores up here? Or are you talking like instruments? And if so, where do I go so I can come get a discount from you?

We do! Nothing is better than sucking what you can from the last legs of a dying breed.

Plus my wife has a real job, so when I inevitably see mine become obsolete, it's allllll gravy.

[Shawnski]

Let's be real people.

When the powers that be can pump TRILLIONS of dollars into the economy, benefitting those FIRST served best, thus increasing the differential 1% from the massed at an ever increasing ratio, you are debating about the minimum wage to be enslaved in this system?

The game of Three Card Monte is strong in this forum.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by SebC

If the employee's market value (i.e. productivity) is below $15/hour, and we consider that to be below a livable wage, I actually think it's far more reasonable for society in general to subsidize that person than the person who employs them. The employer could choose to simply not employ that person, and then society loses whatever productivity they may have contributed below the minimum wage threshold.

That is only acceptable if we consider minimum wage jobs to be the 'first job' type jobs. Start at minimum wage and work yourself up. If that is the case I have no problem helping subsidize that person while he is moving up the ladder until he has a job where he doesn't need welfare.

Problem is lots of people just work minimum wage jobs and don't really move up any ladder.

Personally I think anyone that makes a half decent living and shops at Walmart is a moron simply because Walmart treats their workers like garbage.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Shawnski

Let's be real people.

When the powers that be can pump TRILLIONS of dollars into the economy, benefitting those FIRST served best, thus increasing the differential 1% from the massed at an ever increasing ratio, you are debating about the minimum wage to be enslaved in this system?

The game of Three Card Monte is strong in this forum.

wut?

[Shawnski]

Look, EVERYONE wants to help out and I have no question, that EVERYONE has the best interests at heart.

So do I.

But the populous avenues (which typically are vote buying journeys) are NOT in the best interest of the ultimate societal benefit.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Can you actually reply to Flash_Walken's post though?

[FFR]

My economics understanding is shady, at best... But if they raise minimum wage, employers aren't just going to eat that cost. They are going to pass it on to consumers. So consumer goods (like groceries and clothing) now cost more money. We pay people more but then charge them more to live? Plus, people earning above minimum wage won't see an increase in salary but will now have to pay more for essentials.

Increasing minimum wage doesn't just add money to the economy - it has to come from somewhere.

I could also see the increase having a negative impact on small, family run businesses - it would be a big chunk from their take home profit unless they pass costs on to consumers. Which is hard to do when late corporations already have lower prices for comparable goods.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Shawnski

Would you summarily dismiss Shakespeare, Aristotle, Newton, Einstein, et all for their knowledge?

No, just peter12, for his lack of same.

You're heading down his path of "look what this guy said about this!" too. Use facts and logic to prove a point, use quotes and other people's thoughts on the subject to *illustrate* a point. Using the latter as a short-cut to understanding just means there is no real understanding there to be had.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by FFR

My economics understanding is shady, at best... But if they raise minimum wage, employers aren't just going to eat that cost. They are going to pass it on to consumers. So consumer goods (like groceries and clothing) now cost more money. We pay people more but then charge them more to live? Plus, people earning above minimum wage won't see an increase in salary but will now have to pay more for essentials.

Increasing minimum wage doesn't just add money to the economy - it has to come from somewhere.

I could also see the increase having a negative impact on small, family run businesses - it would be a big chunk from their take home profit unless they pass costs on to consumers. Which is hard to do when late corporations already have lower prices for comparable goods.

You're ignoring that this is being paid in subsidies powered by taxes anyway. I can choose not to eat at McDonalds if they raise their prices to pay their employees a reasonable wage. I can't choose not to pay income tax.

[FFR]

Originally Posted by nik-

You're ignoring that this is being paid in subsidies powered by taxes anyway. I can choose not to eat at McDonalds if they raise their prices to pay their employees a reasonable wage. I can't choose not to pay income tax.

Ok, fair enough. But can you honestly say that you believe the government would lower income tax if minimum wage was increased? You could argue that they could move the money to another part of the budget but departments don't often give money back. They will find somewhere to use the money.

And it wouldn't just be McDonalds raising their prices. Grocery stores would too and we all need to shop there.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with raising minimum wage - I just wonder about the other implications of doing so.

[nik-]

No, I'm just saying we already subsidize it, but as the cost of living continues to outpace the increase of minimum wage, the subsidies have to increase to fill that gap and that can be avoided.

Basically what we're doing now is subsidizing shareholder value through taxes.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by GGG

That link above shows groceries are 30% less and rent is 45% less. Could you live on $1000 a month?

I could, I save as much as possible and try to not spend as much as I can.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by Azure

While this is true, and Walmart is a great example of a company whose business model takes advantage of government welfare, I prefer if people would just stop shopping at Walmart, and instead start supporting companies like Costco who treat their employees fairly well.

I dont shop at wal-mart for that reason and since most stores are gross.

I know Target isn't much better but since the fiance works in the pharmacy we get a 10% discount and 5% with the redcard so it helps. then you add in Cartwheel and other coupons one can get quite a bit off and less than what wal-mart has.

I HATE that store.

Btw not a single employee here at my property makes Min wage. I've started every one of them at 8.25.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by PIMking

I could, I save as much as possible and try to not spend as much as I can.

Just out of curiosity, where do you live where you can live off of $1000 a month?