Ashley Madison (cheating / affair website) hacked

[peter12]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I'm not arguing it from a moral point of view as much as I am a pragmatic one, which I suppose is a type of morality in and of itself but you get what I'm saying.

In the sense of pragmatism, because well obviously this will happen, I agree with you. Discretion, and a certain bourgeois tight-lipped disapproval, is certainly preferable to an entire marriage and family falling apart.

[rubecube]

EDIT: That came off dickish, will try to rephrase.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by peter12

In the sense of pragmatism, because well obviously this will happen, I agree with you. Discretion, and a certain bourgeois tight-lipped disapproval, is certainly preferable to an entire marriage and family falling apart.

Pragmatism also in the sense that direct communication isn't necessarily going to solve the issue and, let's face it, there are egos and feelings involved.

[FlamesAddiction]

I would be willing to bet that most people whose partners are having affairs already either know, or have a good idea that something is up and they accept it rather than face the humiliation head on, or in order to shield the children.

[peter12]

I have close connections to a person whose parents had an affair when she was in her teens. The fallout almost destroyed the family as it stood, and resulted in lifelong disgust with both of her parents. In many ways, I am glad she took it this way. Better that, then trying to be the person masochistically always trying to put the thing back together. Adultery, even in this age of pure selfish autonomy, is so clearly a sin against relational integrity, and trust. Violating that integrity (the marriage oaths, the obligation between parents and child) creates damage far beyond the immediate satisfaction of someone's pleasure "needs."

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by peter12

I have close connections to a person whose parents had an affair when she was in her teens. The fallout almost destroyed the family as it stood, and resulted in lifelong disgust with both of her parents. In many ways, I am glad she took it this way. Better that, then trying to be the person masochistically always trying to put the thing back together. Adultery, even in this age of pure selfish autonomy, is so clearly a sin against relational integrity, and trust. Violating that integrity (the marriage oaths, the obligation between parents and child) creates damage far beyond the immediate satisfaction of someone's pleasure "needs."

If it was strictly to do with "pleasure" then I'd be inclined to agree with you, but we know that sex and intimacy are about much more than just physical pleasure and can cut right to a person's sense of self-worth. One partner withholding from the other can be absolutely devastating.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by rubecube

If it was strictly to do with "pleasure" then I'd be inclined to agree with you, but we know that sex and intimacy are about much more than just physical pleasure and can cut right to a person's sense of self-worth. One partner withholding from the other can be absolutely devastating.

Yes. In fact, this was grounds for divorce among early American Puritans. It is valid.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by peter12

In rube's world, self-control, and communication is clearly out of the question. No, people must expose their partner to disease, pain, and loneliness because they must remain abstinent for an undisclosed period of time rather than work out problems like responsible adults.

Puh-lease. Man, I did not miss you while you were gone.

Stuff like this is just so annoying to read. The cheater is automatically the one who's solely at fualt? What if he/she doesn't cheat? Where are the warriors that will attack the spouse that has stopped having sex, or has mentally become a different person, or gained 400 lbs?

Seriously, I don't condone cheating either, but it's clear that neither you or Dion has ever been in a relationship that went weird. You two sound like you've never even been in a relationship at all, or maybe just one, and you married the person. Good for you for never having had to deal with anything difficult. That's got to be why it's black and white for you.

I'd probably agree that 9/10 times, the cheater was just being a selfish #######, but there are always going to be situations where I can see why someone did something. Sorta like killing someone. Even though it's usually wrong, there are times when it's understandable.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Puh-lease. Man, I did not miss you while you were gone.

Stuff like this is just so annoying to read. The cheater is automatically the one who's solely at fualt? What if he/she doesn't cheat? Where are the warriors that will attack the spouse that has stopped having sex, or has mentally become a different person, or gained 400 lbs?

Seriously, I don't condone cheating either, but it's clear that neither you or Dion has ever been in a relationship that went weird. You two sound like you've never even been in a relationship at all, or maybe just one, and you married the person. Good for you for never having had to deal with anything difficult. That's got to be why it's black and white for you.

I'd probably agree that 9/10 times, the cheater was just being a selfish #######, but there are always going to be situations where I can see why someone did something. Sorta like killing someone. Even though it's usually wrong, there are times when it's understandable.

Get over yourself, man, but also, thanks for coming in and setting everything straight. I clearly, clearly said earlier that both parties are at fault in most cases, and that a sense of pragmatism was necessary.

Also, I have been in a relationship that went weird. I have even cheated before. Anyway, your argument is what? There are exceptions to every rule. Nice one. Of course there are.

That said, the cheater does expose their partner to all of the things that I mentioned. That is undeniable.

If relationships change, there are a lot better ways to get out of them, or assert yourself than doing what most people do, which is not mindlessly cheating in a mindlessly passionate expulsion of frustrated energy, but instead, slowly and methodically create a relationship with another person.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by Dion

How did we go from bad people to crime? You lost me.

Well, the Adidas thread went from jerseys to Hitler. Bad people to crime isn't much of a leap.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Dion

They're cowards because they chose not to have the balls to talk to their partner about what troubles them. If you're not happy and want out of the relationship, be honest and tell them why. See if you can find a way to work things out and if not, leave on amicable terms.

Sure. Easy to say unless you are in that situation.
I'm not saying it is right. Far from it.
But it happens to good people for all sorts of reasons. You are looking at this from what appears to be a rational view. But people don't have affairs for rational reasons. It is emotional and complex.

[calgaryred]

I don't see the hackers as heroes, or trying to shame users of Ashley Madison. Im sure many of those that chose to create an account, and or purchase the services all have different stories why. I don't agree with the website, but it is a free country. Now that the information is out those that used the site will deal with it. I do believe if websites or radio stations use this for entertainment, law enforcement will be shutting it down quickly this is private information. I see the hackers or whoever is in charge of this group called The Impact Team having a beef with the CEO of AM. Best way to kill a business get its users against it, and take it down. This group knew the security wasn't that good, or at least were in the inside the company enough to get through it.

I don't for a minute think The Impact Team is a knight on a white horse, this move seems personal and is about taking down a company period. Its nothing to do with shaming those who were users of the site. I kinda think somewhere the CEO crossed a person or persons in this hacker group and are out for vengeance. The information is personal information, i am sure anybody that tries to download this stuff from the dark web in time will be tracked down by the RCMP or FBI and will be in a world of hurt. This is a case that will change a lot of how we use the internet whether it be the surface or dark net. I am more disturbed how some are having fun with this posting emails that use personal names and outing famous people. Its not entertainment, this is dangerous.

The Impact Team are using people's privacy for bait to get at a company

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Stuff like this is just so annoying to read. The cheater is automatically the one who's solely at fualt? What if he/she doesn't cheat? Where are the warriors that will attack the spouse that has stopped having sex, or has mentally become a different person, or gained 400 lbs?

None of those are valid reasons to cheat on someone. If you're a selfish ###### they may be reasons to break up with someone and find yourself a newer, saner, skinnier girlfriend. As well, the cause of all three of those reasons may have more to do with the cheater than the cheatie. And by definition, the one who cheats is the one responsible for cheating.

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

If you're a selfish ###### they may be reasons to break up with someone and find yourself a newer, saner, skinnier girlfriend.

I feel that breaking up with someone because you want a significant other who is sane hardly falls under the definition of being a selfish ######.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by kunkstyle

I feel that breaking up with someone because you want a significant other who is sane hardly falls under the definition of being a selfish ######.

You got me there.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

None of those are valid reasons to cheat on someone. If you're a selfish ###### they may be reasons to break up with someone and find yourself a newer, saner, skinnier girlfriend. As well, the cause of all three of those reasons may have more to do with the cheater than the cheatie. And by definition, the one who cheats is the one responsible for cheating.

I'm of the opinion that society and social structures stigmatize anything that doesn't resemble monogamy so much so that people are forced to resort to sites like Ashley Madison. Not saying cheating is right, but when someone goes against the grain, what is the normal human reaction? Marginalize and shame them.

I hope one day we can get over the glorification of monogamy and move away from the "One lifetime partner" ideal; I think that would help a lot of people in this world and is a bit more realistic.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I'm of the opinion that society and social structures stigmatize anything that doesn't resemble monogamy so much so that people are forced to resort to sites like Ashley Madison. Not saying cheating is right, but when someone goes against the grain, what is the normal human reaction? Marginalize and shame them.

I hope one day we can get over the glorification of monogamy and move away from the "One lifetime partner" ideal; I think that would help a lot of people in this world and is a bit more realistic.

Well lots of people agree to be polyamorous and that's all good. There are tv shows about it. Swingers are great. Whatever. But if that's not the deal you make, it's your fault, not society's fault.

[bax]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Well lots of people agree to be polyamorous and that's all good. There are tv shows about it. Swingers are great. Whatever. But if that's not the deal you make, it's your fault, not society's fault.

They never said it was society's fault. They just hoped that polygamy would be more normal and less stigmatized in the future.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by bax

They never said it was society's fault. They just hoped that polygamy would be more normal and less stigmatized in the future.

'm of the opinion that society and social structures stigmatize anything that doesn't resemble monogamy

Also, polygamy is different than having multiple sexual partners. There are cruise ships full of people shagging each other on the Atlantic as we speak. Entire resorts in Cancun are dedicated to the pursuit. I don't think the legitimate pursuit of multiple partners is frowned upon that much. Cheating is.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

If you're a selfish ###### they may be reasons to break up with someone and find yourself a newer, saner, skinnier girlfriend. As well, the cause of all three of those reasons may have more to do with the cheater than the cheatie. And by definition, the one who cheats is the one responsible for cheating.

All three are valid reasons to end the relationship; painting someone who would act on those as a selfish ###### is an idiotic position to take. People grow apart, people change, relationships end. That's reality.