[News] Patrick Kane being investigated for rape. UPD: DA announces no charges

[Coach]

Originally Posted by DJones

Haha I'm a guy, I meant I've woken up with having sex with a girl and not known where I am. Fine for that to happen to a guy but with a girl it's sexual assault.

No, it's the same in eyes of the law, just not in your eyes because you wanted the sexy time. So you woke up going "What the hell? Oh I'm having sex, awesome!"

Girls might have this reaction too. Some people (boy or girl) might not. I can see where you're getting the grey area from, but it comes from your own attitude about the situation.

Lesson should probably be that if either person involved in a sexual encounter can't stand or speak, or is passing out, you should probably stop the situation.

[polak]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

If I understood correctly, the poster is not a boy.

So a women can't take advantage of a guy who is black out drunk?



I've had sex with a girl when we were both pretty close to black out. I barely remember it. Not a single criminal thing about it. We were both wasted and wanted to have sex.

It's literally he said / she said at that point.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Regardless if this has any bearing in this incident, if I were any of these guys I would insist on taping any random hookups. Videotaped consent, and at the very least audio till conclusion. Seriously.


This might give the average guy some problems, but I expect these types would not lose many as a result.

Problem is even if you tape the act, the girl can change her mind after the fact (days, weeks or more) and say she was raped so what appears to be consensual is not according to her.

Originally Posted by saillias

This problem is grossly overstated. What's infinitely more common is rapists never getting convicted. Yet the biggest concern on the internet is this belief that women are out to get everyone with false accusations.

Really? Infinitely? I don't want to know where you pulled that "fact" from.

[polak]

nvm

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by zamler

Really? Infinitely? I don't want to know where you pulled that "fact" from.

Perhaps from the fact that only about 2% of rapists ever go to jail?

Alternatively, if you were complaining about the hyperbolic use of "infinitely", I could only ask that you not be so pedantic.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Itse

"More to lose"?

Let's see.

Girl: you get to be humiliated, hated and called a golddigger. Possibility of having to move, change names and/or change jobs. Chance of getting hate mail and threatening phone calls at night. Most of this stuff could happen whether or no it's proven she was raped.

Kane: could maybe lose some money in a settlement. Will carry on his life as a popular multimillionaire regardless.

LOL. That's one way to try and spin it.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Are you suggesting that athletes are more inclined to murder or beat their partners than men on average?

Only MMA fighters. They have domestic violence issues at over 2 X the rate of the rest of the population. The NFL for example, has domestic violence incidents at less than the national average.

Source: HBO's Real Sports last week.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Because being a pro athelete making over 10 million a year means you have zero trouble finding girls to sleep with. They are probably lining up. Which would lead me to believe he doesn't need to rape women. Unless you think he's just that sick of a human that he enjoys raping women. Seeing that hes been in the league for like 8 years now did he just turn into a rapist all of a sudden? I mean it's possible but to me it doesn't really make sense. Clear enough?

So much wrong with this.
First - rape isn't about a guy needing to find a way to have sex. He wants to have sex with THAT person NOW and believes he has the right to do that.
Second - every rapist isn't a rapist until they are. Whether that was 8 years ago, or now, or not now.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Hackey

LOL. That's one way to try and spin it.

"Spin"!?!?!
Dear lord man.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by MattyC

This is also an unsupported guess. Everything is this freaking thread is an unsupported guess. In fact, you actually state that you think they are more likely to be true. I've never once said anything about the frequency of false accusations being higher than real accusations. In fact, I've implied the opposite. I've simply suggested that the false accusations among the wealthy/famous may be more frequent than false accusations against regular people (not in total numbers, because obviously the wealthy is a much smaller population size, but in ratio). I completely agree that the amount of actual rapes will FAR FAR FAR outweigh the false accusations regardless of the accused's status.

Using just logic, if you were a person that was sitting there twiddling their thumbs thinking about falsely accusing someone of rape for personal gain, you're telling me that your target would be just some random person, or someone from your past that you just want to ruin? Or would logic not dictate that you would go after someone who had substantial resources with which to make you go away, and could stand to lose much more from having their personal lives exposed in this way that they would prefer to pay you off than go through the rigors of proving their innocence?

I want to make it clear that I am completely impartial to this case. I don't care if Kane is found guilty and loses all he has, and I don't care if the girl is shown to be a liar. Sheer numbers will dictate that it's much more likely to be true than false, but that doesn't mean that it's not more likely to be false than if he wasn't a high-profile famous person (it can still be much more likely to be true in that scenario).

Actually, it's not unsupported. And, of the two percent of rape reports that turn out to be false accusations, most are against aquaintances and don't involve any sort of financial motivation. They are almost always relationship based.

Show me a false rape accusation against a celebrity and I'll show you a ton more against an ex-boyfriend, a teacher or something similar.

[GioforPM]

http://web.stanford.edu/group/maan/cgi-bin/?page_id=297

Myths about false accusation

Myths: “Lots of women cry rape when they regret sex.”
“Women accuse celebrities and athletes of rape all the time for money and attention.”

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Research related to interviews with rapists begs to differ.

This isn't something I'm just pulling out my ass; it's accepted scientific doctrine.

In fact, the general public belief that rape is about sex is what proliferates things like "oh she was asking for it wearing that dress" etc.

I never said you were wrong. I actually agreed with you. I just don't think power is the movating factor in every situation. I think sexual desire could easily be one. People have varying motives for every aspect of life so I see no reason why this would be different.

[GioforPM]

http://news.yahoo.com/myth-woman-cri...-politics.html

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Hackey

I never said you were wrong. I actually agreed with you. I just don't think power is the movating factor in every situation. I think sexual desire could easily be one. People have varying motives for every aspect of life so I see no reason why this would be different.

Hate to say it, but I have to agree with this. I have no difficulty believing that in many cases it is about power and dominance. I also have no difficulty believing that in others, it's about having committed yourself to having sex with this woman and simply not caring about her protestations. In others, maybe it's simply being willfully blind to protestations that are not expressed as explicitly as yelling "NO, STOP" at someone.

This "all rape is about power" strikes me as attempting to find some alternative justification for something that we intuitively find so horrifying, it demands further analysis for a deeper motive.

[East Coast Flame]

A+ thread everyone, great job

[Coach]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Actually, it's not unsupported. And, of the two percent of rape reports that turn out to be false accusations, most are against aquaintances and don't involve any sort of financial motivation. They are almost always relationship based.

Show me a false rape accusation against a celebrity and I'll show you a ton more against an ex-boyfriend, a teacher or something similar.

Ok. Again. I have said multiple times that I am referring to the ratio and frequency, not the total amount. No where have I said that there are more total false accusations against celebs/wealthy than against regular people.

The general population is much larger than the celebrity population. There can be 1000's more rapes in the general population and still have the false accusation rate be higher for celebrities. Because there are millions more regular people than celebrities. Ratios!

Lets say (stats from my butt) there are 1,000,000 people in the US that are considered in the category of wealthy and well known enough that a rape accusation could be lucrative (that number is probably very high). If of those million, 500 are accused of rape and 5 of them are false, that is 1% of all rape accusations against the celebrity population being false.

300,000,000 people in the US. Wiki says 173,000 victims last year is 0.1% of the population over 12 years old. If 1% of those are fake as well, that's 1730 cases. If less than 1% are fake, let's say 0.5%, thats still 865 cases (173x as many) of false accusation, even though the rate is half.

That is what I've been trying to get across. The total amount of false accusations on the general population will be higher, no question. That does not mean the rate of false accusations is higher. They are not the same question.

Also, how is what you said NOT unsupported? You claimed the accusations that end in settlements are more likely to be true. Absolutely no one has data on this, because no one knows the truth in any cases settled out of court. That's why they settle out of court.

[justafan]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Hate to say it, but I have to agree with this. I have no difficulty believing that in many cases it is about power and dominance. I also have no difficulty believing that in others, it's about having committed yourself to having sex with this woman and simply not caring about her protestations. In others, maybe it's simply being willfully blind to protestations that are not expressed as explicitly as yelling "NO, STOP" at someone.

This "all rape is about power" strikes me as attempting to find some alternative justification for something that we intuitively find so horrifying, it demands further analysis for a deeper motive.

You think she is "protesting" but the guy just goes ahead? In doing this, maybe a smack outside the head, pinning her down across her throat? Thats how you force someone to "have sex". Seems violent and powerful to me.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

http://web.stanford.edu/group/maan/cgi-bin/?page_id=297

Myths about false accusation

Myths: “Lots of women cry rape when they regret sex.”
“Women accuse celebrities and athletes of rape all the time for money and attention.”

Go to about 40:00.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9s5H-RNjxY

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Hackey

LOL. That's one way to try and spin it.

Sheesh. You really should read more on the topic.

That's not to say that there are no golddigggers. Obviously she also has more to gain here. But let's face it: rich people can pretty much always pay their way out of trouble, while people who accuse popular people of crimes almost always get a lot of s**t.

[Hyde]

Originally Posted by justafan

You think she is "protesting" but the guy just goes ahead? In doing this, maybe a smack outside the head, pinning her down across her throat? Thats how you force someone to "have sex". Seems violent and powerful to me.

We live in a society that prior to 1983, a husband could not be charged with raping his wife. It wasn't until 1982, when NDP MP Margaret Mitchell raised the issue of violence against women. She was laughed at by MPs in the House of Commons when she demanded the government take action to stop domestic violence. The outcry from women’s groups brought attention to the issue. It wasn't until Bill C-127 came into effect on Jan. 4, 1983, making sexual assault against one’s wife an offence.

In its 1993 declaration on the elimination of violence against women, the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights established marital rape as a human-rights violation.

(Sorry I know that this thread is not about marital rape)