The forward glut (who would you have in Cgy in Oct)

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

Show yourself, voter who excluded Bennett and Frolik.

Yoho omitted Frolik
Reggie Dunlop omitted Bennett

#publicshaming

[Dion]

Originally Posted by foofighter15

Boooo Byron booooo

A great penalty killer with lots of speed

[ricardodw]

It looks like an excess of about 4 serviceable and mostly young NHL level forwards and the #7/8 -men spots filled by journeymen d-men that would not be sure things to be claimed on waivers if they had to clear.

Adding Hamilton really made the Flames top 5 and even 6 with Engelland top notch but Nadakal/Wotherspoon/Morrison/Sieloff are looking going to get an unearned opportunity.

It will be interesting if the extra forwards are converted to an emerging d-man and how long the Flames wait to sign Schlemko or equivalent to be the #7 d-man

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

I think the issue that prevented Hartley from playing him more was his conditioning. It wasn't quite up to scratch when he joined the team, he was huffing and puffing and ran out of gas a lot. So if he puts him some solid offseason work before training camp on cardio, he can have a good showing in camp and can potentially beat out players like Byron and Jooris for NHL spots.

Luckily if Shore doesn't pan out on our roster, he could be packaged in a deal for a better player. Lots of teams called about him, so maybe someone would overpay.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Dion

A great penalty killer with lots of speed

The question wasn't really "is Paul Byron a serviceable NHLer" though...it's more "does Paul Byron fit with our team". And with so many great forwards pushing for a spot, the roster is suddenly extremely full.

As you said, he's good on PK with good speed. He's also a possession driver, so I pencilled him in with Frolik and Backlund as the "Advanced Stat Darlings" line. He will, however, have to beat out other up-and-coming forwards like Poirier, Jooris, and Granlund as the addition of Frolik crosses out one of the top six spots. Granlund and Poirier will only continue to improve and those two are hard pressed to secure a NHL spot as is - if development camp is any indication, Poirier will have a very impressive main camp.

I think the combination of status quo with Hartley and still being more reliable than the other forwards will see Byron squeeze in and make the team this year. However, I feel certain that this is Byron's last year with the Flames, if he's not moved sooner.

[David Struch]

Ferland & Granlund will have to be sent down
Bollig on waivers

Gaudreau - Monahan - Hudler
Raymond - Backlund - Frolik
Colborne - Bennett - Jones
Bouma - Stajan - Shore
Byron - Jooris

[Calgary4LIfe]

They always say GMs like to have these tough decisions, but I don't envy Treliving at this point.

You have to balance young guys like Shore and Wolf who are waiver eligible. Good chance Wolf clears, but from what Treliving was saying, no way Shore passes. Can't see him not being there given this factor.

I think every prospect not named Bennett and Ferland who is waiver exempt gets demoted. Klimchuk, Arnold and Poirier. Ferland I bet has already has a big fan with Burke, Treliving and most importantly, Hartley.

Even with getting rid of Raymond somehow, I just can't really make enough decisions, and I have Bollig and Byron sitting to start.

Tough job.

EDIT: Dammit.. I made an ID ten T mistake, and voted for the 7 guys who shouldn't start.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Doesn't Ferland need to pass through waivers? If so, there's no way the team takes a chance with losing him. I know that lots of players will be going down, but I think a guy like Ferly would get scooped up in a hurry. Same goes for Shore. They trade him before they waive them IMO.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Doesn't Ferland need to pass through waivers? If so, there's no way the team takes a chance with losing him. I know that lots of players will be going down, but I think a guy like Ferly would get scooped up in a hurry. Same goes for Shore. They trade him before they waive them IMO.

I think he's exempt this year based on looking at his signing date and games played, but I could be wrong. I miss capgeek's waiver calculator.

EDIT: Ferland signed his contract on Dec 5, 2011. He was 19 years old when he signed. As such, he is exempt for 4 years or 160 NHL games played. He played his first NHL game in 14-15, which was his third year from signing. As such, I don't think his exemption resets to 3 years starting in 14-15, as it was down from the 4 years starting in 12-13 to 1 more year in 15-16. He has played 35 NHL games, meaning his exemption ends after the 15-16 season, or immediately after he plays another 125 NHL games, whichever comes first.

Note: The part I'm hazy on is if 11-12 counts as his first waiver exempt season, since he turned 19 in 2011 and signed in 2011, or if 12-13 counts as his first waiver exempt season. If 11-12 is his first waiver exempt season, then his 4 years have been used up and he is not waiver exempt for the upcoming season.

Any CBA experts want to chime in?

[HelloHockeyFans]

I voted based on how I see players slotting in on the lines:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Hudler
Bouma - Backlund - Frolik
Colborne - Bennett - Jones
Ferland - Stajan - Jooris
Bollig, Poirier

Don't think Raymond is necessarily that bad, but I don't see him bumping anyone above out of the lineup for a spot, so Treliving probably tries to move him to the AHL or to another team in a trade. Byron isn't bad either, but again, not sure who he pushes out of the above lineup.

I guess Poirier is the one guy who could get pushed out or maybe even Jooris depending how he does in camp.

[Vulcan]

The simple way I understand the waiver rule is that a skater gets 3 years of waiver free status from when they turn pro at 20. If they turn pro earlier that counts as a year such as Bennett did last year. If they turn pro after 20 it gets less than the 3 years depending on their age. There are exceptions such Poirier and Sieloff but I haven't heard or seen anything saying Ferland falls into that category.

Ferland turned pro at 20 and has been playing on a pro contract for 3 years, therefor his waiver free status has been used up. No way does he get sent down unless he's seriously screwed up and even than he probably won't pass through waivers.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by HelloHockeyFans

I voted based on how I see players slotting in on the lines:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Hudler
Bouma - Backlund - Frolik
Colborne - Bennett - Jones
Ferland - Stajan - Jooris
Bollig, Poirier

Don't think Raymond is necessarily that bad, but I don't see him bumping anyone above out of the lineup for a spot, so Treliving probably tries to move him to the AHL or to another team in a trade. Byron isn't bad either, but again, not sure who he pushes out of the above lineup.

I guess Poirier is the one guy who could get pushed out or maybe even Jooris depending how he does in camp.

Byron probably doesn't make the opening day roster. More likely he subs in when there are injuries or players are not playing well. A good insurance policy to have on the team.

[jayswin]

At the end of the day, this will likely play out quite a bit easier than it feels it will, right now.

I'm sure one depth forward will be moved out either for a decent pick or a "At least we got something" 4th or 5th round pick.

Then as is the case every year, after certain posters have been complaining that rookies don't have room to be called up, we'll get a couple weeks in and the "there's always at least one or two forward injuries" game will start, and all of sudden everyone that should have a spot will have one, and we'll be saying "wow, good thing we had this depth".

Then guys like Poirier, Arnold will get their chances to be called up, and the world keeps turning.

[jayswin]

That's not a shot at this thread and poll, btw Bingo. I find the off season game of trying to figure out where everyone will be really fun and worth while.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Ferland turned pro at 20 and has been playing on a pro contract for 3 years, therefor his waiver free status has been used up. No way does he get sent down unless he's seriously screwed up and even than he probably won't pass through waivers.

Except he signed at 19 but didn't play pro as a 19 year old, which gives him 4 years. I'm just not sure if the 4 years start from 11-12 (which would end the exemption in 14-15) or from when he turned pro in 12-13 (which would end the exemption after 15-16).



EDIT: From the waiver exemption part of the CBA (Article 13.4):

Originally Posted by CBA

The first season in which a Player who is age 20 or older plays in one (1) or more
Professional Games shall constitute the first year for calculating the number of years he is
exempt from Regular Waivers.

Ferland's first pro game was in 12-13 with Abbotsford.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

It looks like an excess of about 4 serviceable and mostly young NHL level forwards and the #7/8 -men spots filled by journeymen d-men that would not be sure things to be claimed on waivers if they had to clear.

Adding Hamilton really made the Flames top 5 and even 6 with Engelland top notch but Nadakal/Wotherspoon/Morrison/Sieloff are looking going to get an unearned opportunity.

It will be interesting if the extra forwards are converted to an emerging d-man and how long the Flames wait to sign Schlemko or equivalent to be the #7 d-man

How is it "unearned" when every one of those guys was drafted or signed as UFA with the intention of giving them a chance to "earn" a spot on the team?

[stemit14]

I really hope ferland's lack of waiver status isn't used as the reason to send him down. We saw that last year with jooris and baertschi... Everyone agreed they looked better than setoguchi in camp but setoguchi got a long look in the regular season before he was finally sent down and other guys were brought up.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

Except he signed at 19 but didn't play pro as a 19 year old, which gives him 4 years. I'm just not sure if the 4 years start from 11-12 (which would end the exemption in 14-15) or from when he turned pro in 12-13 (which would end the exemption after 15-16).



EDIT: From the waiver exemption part of the CBA (Article 13.4):



Ferland's first pro game was in 12-13 with Abbotsford.

Myself, I mostly ignore when he signed as that years contract slides. It's when he turns pro that counts and Ferland has used up his three years of waiver free status.

If you want to look at it as when he signed, that comes out to 4 years and in that case the 4 years are also up. I'd use Sieloff as an example of this as he signed as a 19 year old and thus gets 4 years of waiver free exemption depending on his NHL games played.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by stemit14

I really hope ferland's lack of waiver status isn't used as the reason to send him down. We saw that last year with jooris and baertschi... Everyone agreed they looked better than setoguchi in camp but setoguchi got a long look in the regular season before he was finally sent down and other guys were brought up.

And did that hurt the team at all?

They took a gamble and it didn't pay off.

However, what it did do was, when they sent him down, they made it clear to everyone in the organization that they will do whatever they need to do to ice the best team possible. Including demoting vets.

[Finger Cookin]

The exemption in years is literally based on the player's age when they sign their first contract, so it absolutely should not be ignored. And later in the article of the CBA it states that the first year of exemption is when the player plays their first pro game. Signing as a 20 year old and playing your first pro game as a 20 year old is not the same thing as signing as a 19 year old and playing your first pro game as a 20 year old.