Flames cap situation 2016-17

[Fire of the Phoenix]

It's like some people don't realize we have a crap ton of contracts expiring over the next two years. Other GMs look at our situation and are green with envy. There is literally not a team out there with a more favorable salary cap situation going forward.

[Incogneto]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

incorrect sum(ranges) leaves Frolik and Hamilton not counted in the totals

I think I fixed the error you saw.

I would like to point out that there are seperate tabs focused on each of the next 3 years. when looking 2 or 3 seasons in the future, look at that specific tab, not just the column on the first tab.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by InCoGnEtO

Agreed that a 7-8 length is not gonna happen. I have it pegged as 5yr, $7.5M (total of $37.5M).

Less than half of what he's asking. Possible, but unlikely I think.

(Personally I don't see him as a guy that can keep up elite level of play for very long, so for me even that contract is likely to be a year too long.)

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Itse

I have serious doubts about whether we can re-sign Giordano.
Both the money and the term Giordanos side is asking seems way more than makes sense for us. Especially the term.

If we do however, I think it's guaranteed that someone else (Wideman) is moved. Otherwise we have just too much money tied up in defense.

Raymond I think is gone anyway, next summer at the latest.

Why can people not see two years out?

Yes, we will sign Giordano and yes, we'll have plenty of room to do so.

And of course Wideman will be gone. Current prospects:

Wotherspoon
Morrison
Hickey
Kylington
Andersson
Rafikov
Kulak
Culkin

We need 1 - one - of these prospects to make the team in 16/17, in order to replace Wideman.

If none do, the D becomes a little weaker until someone steps up, and maybe we grab a 5/6 UFA on a short contract

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Why can people not see two years out?

Yes, we will sign Giordano and yes, we'll have plenty of room to do so.

Why can't people read all the messages before commenting?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Itse

Why can't people read all the messages before commenting?

lol

You quote part of my post and then say that?

[Benched]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

It's like some people don't realize we have a crap ton of contracts expiring over the next two years. Other GMs look at our situation and are green with envy. There is literally not a team out there with a more favorable salary cap situation going forward.

I wish people would stop saying this.

There are 2 points here.

1) We're not in cap hell, we have lots of contracts coming off the books. Exactly as you posted. Right. Correct. We all get it. Nice.


2) We can NOT keep all the players we currently have on the roster, so some players are leaving us. Who? How many? that's what we're discussing here. Hudler is the original subject. Odds are we don't re-sign him due to the other contracts we have, new contracts upcoming, and re-signing Gio.

Or to keep Hudler you'll have to give him XXXX which means you have to move XXXXX

We're discussing the moves we are going to be forced to make due to cap room.

Two different discussions. We're not handicapped. We're in an enviable position. Doesn't mean certain players are returning.

[Bunk]

Definitely shows the importance of having several good players on entry level contracts at all times. Must keep stocking those cupboards so that we have at least a couple players each year ready to step into the NHL.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

lol

You quote part of my post and then say that?

Point is, I already commented on what you asked before you asked it.

It's not about whether we can sign him. I don't think we'll want to give him what he wants to get.

Or, in other words: It's not about being technically able to fit him under the cap.


Besides, in the cap world every dollar spent is a dollar that can't be spent on something else. If we sign Gio for say 6x7.5M, there's a good chance that he's going to be 3-5 million overpaid in his last two seasons. You can get a pretty significant upgrade in another position or two with that kind of money.



(Plus he's not going to sign a 2 year contract, so I don't see why that specifically should be the timeframe we should be looking into...)

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by InCoGnEtO

I think I fixed the error you saw.

I would like to point out that there are seperate tabs focused on each of the next 3 years. when looking 2 or 3 seasons in the future, look at that specific tab, not just the column on the first tab.

Thanks flipped the tab and saw your best guess at the 2016-17 roster...

Nice work

1 spare forward 1 spare d-man and Ortio/Gillies in net.... combined 3.9M down from this years Hillier/Ramo 8.3M

and we have a cushion of 3.7M.

I think that is what you call a cap team.

Validates my OP that Hudler is not in the plans --- absolute most that is left to squeeze him in and be in cap jail for signing Bennett would be 4.7M.

Gaudreau and Monahan will be in the same boat as Hamilton.... 6M or offer sheet.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Benched

I wish people would stop saying this.

There are 2 points here.

1) We're not in cap hell, we have lots of contracts coming off the books. Exactly as you posted. Right. Correct. We all get it. Nice.


2) We can NOT keep all the players we currently have on the roster, so some players are leaving us. Who? How many? that's what we're discussing here. Hudler is the original subject. Odds are we don't re-sign him due to the other contracts we have, new contracts upcoming, and re-signing Gio.

Or to keep Hudler you'll have to give him XXXX which means you have to move XXXXX

We're discussing the moves we are going to be forced to make due to cap room.

Two different discussions. We're not handicapped. We're in an enviable position. Doesn't mean certain players are returning.

I agree, choices will need to be made, but that doesn't change how great our current situation is. It's the nature of the salary cap that you can't keep all your good players. Luckily we have an army of cheap, good and young players ready to make their mark, which makes our current situation even more palatable.

Does getting Frolik preclude us from signing Hudler? No, not at all. Hudler's salary/term demands are the only thing that will do that.

Fact is Giordano, Hiller, Ramo, Jones and Hudler are all UFAs next season, while Monahan and Gaudreau will require significant raises. It looks like all the UFAs will need to be sacrificed to pay for our two young stars, sign Giordano and fix the goaltending. But it doesn't have to play out that way, as there will be a plethora of other assets on short and cheap deals that can be moved to prioritize a guy like Hudler, even if he wants 5x5.5m.

Wideman 5.25
Engelland 2.91
Raymond 3.15
Backlund 3.5
Russell 2.6

These are all fluid assets that likely won't be around in 5 years that could be moved to accommodate new deals. Some will be retained obviously but these are all tradeable assets if need be (though guys like Raymond and Engelland won't fetch more than a late pick)

This is where our burgeoning depth comes into play. We have the players to replace all those players in our system right now. If BT really wants a guy like Hudler, he'll get him. It will really come down to Hudler's demands and if BT thinks he's a fit at that point. A guy like Backlund might get sacrificed to make it happen.

We are going to end up like Chicago IMO. Top 6 forwards, Top 4 Dmen and 1 G locked into big deals while the rest of the team is composed of cheap vets and players on ELCs. Except we aren't going to do stupid things like ship out a Saad just to bring in an Anisimov.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Why can people not see two years out?

Yes, we will sign Giordano and yes, we'll have plenty of room to do so.

And of course Wideman will be gone. Current prospects:

Wotherspoon
Morrison
Hickey
Kylington
Andersson
Rafikov
Kulak
Culkin

We need 1 - one - of these prospects to make the team in 16/17, in order to replace Wideman.

If none do, the D becomes a little weaker until someone steps up, and maybe we grab a 5/6 UFA on a short contract

No you need 2. and all but Wotherpoon and Morrison seem to be at least 3 years away.

Russell will be gone (he is a UFA at the end of next yeat and looking at Sekera's contract for a comparable) and then if you ditch Wideman you are looking at Gio/Brodie Hamilton/Engelland to be the top 4 and Wotherspoon-Morrison along with some journeyman like Diaz or Schlemko to round out 5-7..... but then there is money for Hudler.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

No you need 2. and all but Wotherpoon and Morrison seem to be at least 3 years away.

Russell will be gone (he is a UFA at the end of next yeat and looking at Sekera's contract for a comparable) and then if you ditch Wideman you are looking at Gio/Brodie Hamilton/Engelland to be the top 4 and Wotherspoon-Morrison along with some journeyman like Diaz or Schlemko to round out 5-7..... but then there is money for Hudler.

Russell isn't getting the contract Sekera signed... not even close. I would be shocked if he signs for more than 4x4.5m.

[Enoch Root]

yeah, Russell is not getting Sekera money (on an extension from the Flames)

I'll go with 3 x $3.5M

[Fire]

Stajan is a good fit on this team, but for the 2016-17 season paying $3.125 million for a 4th line center will be too much. He will need to be traded by then or bought out.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

I agree, choices will need to be made, but that doesn't change how great our current situation is. It's the nature of the salary cap that you can't keep all your good players. Luckily we have an army of cheap, good and young players ready to make their mark, which makes our current situation even more palatable.

Does getting Frolik preclude us from signing Hudler? No, not at all. Hudler's salary/term demands are the only thing that will do that.

Fact is Giordano, Hiller, Ramo, Jones and Hudler are all UFAs next season, while Monahan and Gaudreau will require significant raises. It looks like all the UFAs will need to be sacrificed to pay for our two young stars, sign Giordano and fix the goaltending. But it doesn't have to play out that way, as there will be a plethora of other assets on short and cheap deals that can be moved to prioritize a guy like Hudler, even if he wants 5x5.5m.

Wideman 5.25
Engelland 2.91
Raymond 3.15
Backlund 3.5
Russell 2.6

These are all fluid assets that likely won't be around in 5 years that could be moved to accommodate new deals. Some will be retained obviously but these are all tradeable assets if need be (though guys like Raymond and Engelland won't fetch more than a late pick)

This is where our burgeoning depth comes into play. We have the players to replace all those players in our system right now. If BT really wants a guy like Hudler, he'll get him. It will really come down to Hudler's demands and if BT thinks he's a fit at that point. A guy like Backlund might get sacrificed to make it happen.

We are going to end up like Chicago IMO. Top 6 forwards, Top 4 Dmen and 1 G locked into big deals while the rest of the team is composed of cheap vets and players on ELCs. Except we aren't going to do stupid things like ship out a Saad just to bring in an Anisimov.

Can't be like Chicago... No 12 year with 5.5 M cap hit for Gio like the Hawks did with Hossa and Keith.

Even after the Saad trade where they save 2M in cap they are right at the cap for next year and need to work in another 3 players. They still have to get rid of Sharp for a million dollar player to make the cap room for the other 3 1M players.

They basically were able to stretch the cap because Brad Richards was willing to play for them for 1M.

Interesting that Sharp has sort have been on the market due to cap (and declining play) and we will see what the Hawks have to do to get rid of his contract that run a year longer than Wideman.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

There was a post that suggested Hudler would be re-signed/ extended for 7M.

Given he will be 32 when his contract expires, I can't see the Flames resigning him to any where near that value.

I understand it was mentioned in another thread etc..

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Russell isn't getting the contract Sekera signed... not even close. I would be shocked if he signs for more than 4x4.5m.

do you think Russell is a better d-man than Sekera?

I kind of agree that the most he should get is 4 M but the UFA premium never fails to astound.

Russell 24 minutes a game 34 pts +18 and lead league shot blocks by a lot: 283 to 208 for Jossi in 2nd place.

Sekera 23 pts -3

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

yeah, Russell is not getting Sekera money (on an extension from the Flames)

I'll go with 3 x $3.5M

4.5 or 3.5 ....either way he will not likely get that from the Flames unless they unload Wideman first.

[Incogneto]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Does getting Frolik preclude us from signing Hudler? No, not at all. Hudler's salary/term demands are the only thing that will do that.

Can't help but think that the replacement for Hudler next year is Porier and his ELC.