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Old 07-01-2015, 01:42 PM   #401
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I disagree - it's a stupid opener. And before you ask, yes, I know how negotiations work - it's what I do for a living. Of course, you come in with a high opening number, but you don't want it to be so ridiculous that it gets the hackles up on the other side.

It is not a stupid opener. PK Subban gets that much, Towes and Kane get more than that.

Obviously the flames will argue that at his age and injury history that they won't pay that and they will agree on a smaller number.

It's not a stupid opener when you're one of the best defenseman in the world.
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Old 07-01-2015, 01:43 PM   #402
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Its a ridiculous starting point from an agent who is notorious for his dealings but he is totally within his rights to do so if he wishes. Im sure our mangement has shown enough to us that clearly that wont happen, like others have said play out the last year and let him walk or trade him if thats the term and number. Thanks for the time and service and good luck to you.

There are almost no dmen in the league worth that kinda money, none at his age, zero, its just not smart cap management. Do teams eventually start shying away from players with certain agents or does it already happen?
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Old 07-01-2015, 01:44 PM   #403
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Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler View Post
I disagree - it's a stupid opener. And before you ask, yes, I know how negotiations work - it's what I do for a living. Of course, you come in with a high opening number, but you don't want it to be so ridiculous that it gets the hackles up on the other side.
Why?

If his end game is 7.5/8 a year, how in the world is 9 a "stupid opener"?
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Old 07-01-2015, 01:44 PM   #404
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I would be tempted to let him play out the last year of the deal and see where things are at the deadline. If he has another season where he misses a good portion he's either going to have to adjust his asking price or maybe the Flames should just move on. I can't fault the guy for exploring all his options and trying to cash in but I don't see him coming close to this season's numbers ever again and I don't believe the Flames should be paying for past performance as he's a player that is likely on the slow decline.
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Old 07-01-2015, 01:44 PM   #405
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Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler View Post
I disagree - it's a stupid opener. And before you ask, yes, I know how negotiations work - it's what I do for a living. Of course, you come in with a high opening number, but you don't want it to be so ridiculous that it gets the hackles up on the other side.
Agreed.
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Old 07-01-2015, 01:45 PM   #406
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Agreed.

If 7.5 is what they hope to end on settling please explain to me how 9 is a stupid opener?
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Old 07-01-2015, 01:47 PM   #407
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It's a combination of the 9M and the 8years that is stupid. It's totally unrealistic.
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Old 07-01-2015, 01:47 PM   #408
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It is not a stupid opener. PK Subban gets that much, Towes and Kane get more than that.

Obviously the flames will argue that at his age and injury history that they won't pay that and they will agree on a smaller number.

It's not a stupid opener when you're one of the best defenseman in the world.
But are Subban, Towes, or Kane 31 years old and coming off an serious injury? All these guys you mentioned are young guys, consistently good and put up awesome numbers. Give your head a shake. He has 2 good seasons over his career, for all we know he could trend downward starting next season

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Old 07-01-2015, 01:48 PM   #409
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But are Subban, Towes, or Kane 33 years old and coming off an serious injury? All these guys you mentioned are young guys, consistently good and put up awesome numbers. Give your head a shake. He has 2 good seasons over his career, for all we know he could trend downward starting next season

Did you read the rest of my post? I said the flames would argue his age and injury history to lower that number. I never said the flames will offer him a 9 million dollar per year deal.

It's like you think it's 9 million per year or bust for Gio, when in reality it's a long, complicated, negotiation process.

Giving my head a firm shake. Thanks for the tip.
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Old 07-01-2015, 01:55 PM   #410
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Why?

If his end game is 7.5/8 a year, how in the world is 9 a "stupid opener"?
You can't ask for ridiculous $ and ridiculous term. Winter should be smart enough to know he can't have both. If his end game is 7.5/8, ask for 5 @ 9. If his end-game is a "retirement" contract ask for 7 @ 7. When I get an offer in my field that is the equivalent of 8 @ 9, I become vexed. You have to convey to the other side "Yes, this is a high ask, but you know I am a reasonable guy and we will get something done that works for everyone".
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Old 07-01-2015, 02:04 PM   #411
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You can't ask for ridiculous $ and ridiculous term. Winter should be smart enough to know he can't have both. If his end game is 7.5/8, ask for 5 @ 9. If his end-game is a "retirement" contract ask for 7 @ 7. When I get an offer in my field that is the equivalent of 8 @ 9, I become vexed. You have to convey to the other side "Yes, this is a high ask, but you know I am a reasonable guy and we will get something done that works for everyone".
I would bet Treliving doesn't really care how reasonable or unreasonable the opening gambit is from the player's agent. The Flames know what Gio is worth to the team, who else they have to sign in coming years and what exactly they can afford and will respond accordingly. The opening ask likely has little sway over their response.
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Old 07-01-2015, 02:04 PM   #412
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OK....but when you take the emotion out of it (which Treliving has been emphasizing since day 1) and realize an ask is....an ask, it means nothing.

You then counter with 5 years at 6.5....do you think Winter gets upset by that as well? Not a chance.
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Old 07-01-2015, 02:09 PM   #413
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I think Treliving will stay focused on his young core, what they'll cost forthe next 5-6 years and make an accurate decision about whether or not Giordano can fit. No way you give him 8 years. 5 is the most I would do. Anything more and you move on. Can't be in the business of handing lucrative last NHL contracts to guys who aren't future hall of famers.
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Old 07-01-2015, 02:12 PM   #414
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The amount of people reading into rumours (that we have no idea are even accurate) and jumping to conclusions and hardened (borderline panicked) stances - is staggering, but unsurprising.
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Old 07-01-2015, 02:14 PM   #415
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I like how this entire argument centres around the premise that Kypreos isn't full of crap.
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Old 07-01-2015, 02:18 PM   #416
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Just a reminder, Rich Winter ran a smear campaign on the Flames as he was negotiating Gio's last contract in 2011.
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Old 07-01-2015, 02:18 PM   #417
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OK....but when you take the emotion out of it (which Treliving has been emphasizing since day 1) and realize an ask is....an ask, it means nothing.

You then counter with 5 years at 6.5....do you think Winter gets upset by that as well? Not a chance.
Sure. I trust Treliving to take emotion out of it. Giordano/Winter, I don't know. Clearly, a lot of players take this personally, and so do some GMs. There is one fundamental disconnect here - Giordano "deserves" to get paid for what he has done. Treliving should only pay for what Giordano is going to do. Is there an overlap? I don't think your suggested compromise of 5 @ 8 is good for the Flames, but we shall see.
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Old 07-01-2015, 02:20 PM   #418
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Yesterday we were told by the 'experts' that Hamilton wanted 7.5 million for 6 years. Treliving got him for 5.75.

Earlier today we were told that Frolik wanted 5 million plus plus. Treliving got it done for 4.3.

Who cares what the early numbers are being reported as. All that matters is the final number the contract is signed for, and I'm confident that it will get done at a number that makes everyone happy.
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Old 07-01-2015, 03:00 PM   #419
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Yesterday we were told by the 'experts' that Hamilton wanted 7.5 million for 6 years. Treliving got him for 5.75.

Earlier today we were told that Frolik wanted 5 million plus plus. Treliving got it done for 4.3.

Who cares what the early numbers are being reported as. All that matters is the final number the contract is signed for, and I'm confident that it will get done at a number that makes everyone happy.

... Or we get a great return in a Gio trade.
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Old 07-01-2015, 03:03 PM   #420
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... Or we get a great return in a Gio trade.
The only "great" returns in a Gio trade I can think of would be Ivan Provorov, Drew Doughty, Kevin Shattenkirk, Ryan McDonagh, Hampus Lindholm, or Aaron Ekblad.

...We would not get a great return.
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