CP Mafia 4 - The Unknown Host - Game Over!

[Party Elephant]

As we're just about 24 hours out I'll update the scoreboard:
Vote Count

Hasn't Voted (3): devo22, SebC

Starseed (4): Oling_Roachinen, Peanut, mrkajz44, Party Elephant
mrkajz44 (4): squiggs96, Timbo, Hockeyguy15, dissentowner
Party Elephant (3): bizaro86 , Starseed, GGG
devo22 (1) : Puxlut


The deadline is Friday, June 12th at 10:00 PM Mountain Time.

[Peanut]

So just 2 haven't voted?

[Timbo]

Just something I found that has bothered me.

Originally Posted by Timbo

Is the fourth vote special or something? Seriously like WTF?

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

Fourth vote is somewhat scummy usually because the voting "train" has already started and its easier to say it wasn't your idea.

Also, in this case, the fourth vote is bad because it takes 5 to lynch, so you are putting someone in a tough spot, but not being the final vote (again, to say, well I didn't actually push them over the edge sort of thing)

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

2) Third vote - I often consider the third vote key as that takes the person from just suspicious for a few to a legit lynch candidate. Your vote pushed him over that threshold

So to mrkajz44 the 3rd and the 4th vote are scummy? I found this strange that he would at one point call out a fourth vote and then later call out a 3rd vote.

So my question is which vote is scummy? Obviously it is the vote to whom your main accuser has last voted.

Food for thought fellow voters.

[Party Elephant]

Originally Posted by Peanut

So just 2 haven't voted?

Whoops, forgot to change that number. Yes, just seb and devo haven't voted.

[mrkajz44]

Originally Posted by Timbo

Just something I found that has bothered me.

So to mrkajz44 the 3rd and the 4th vote are scummy? I found this strange that he would at one point call out a fourth vote and then later call out a 3rd vote.

So my question is which vote is scummy? Obviously it is the vote to whom your main accuser has last voted.

Food for thought fellow voters.

Timbo, you are twisting my words, and implying something that I didn't actually say. Here are my two posts on the third and fourth votes:

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

Fourth vote is somewhat scummy usually because the voting "train" has already started and its easier to say it wasn't your idea.[...]

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

[...] Third vote - I often consider the third vote key as that takes the person from just suspicious for a few to a legit lynch candidate. Your vote pushed him over that threshold. [...]

I clearly said I feel the fourth vote is scummy. I stand by that statement. When I was talking about the third vote, I said I considered it key, but not necessarily scummy. When read in context, I ended up not liking HG's third vote because of the other factors that happened in the Acitve lynching. Here is a little context on my talk about the HG vote

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

HG - as I said in my post near the end, I didn't think your involvement in the Active lynching was particularly scummy in itself. When you look at what happened in Day 2 and 3 though, I see it in a slightly different light (read: more scummy than at first glace). Everything in your rebuttal is reasonable, but when considering my suspicions of you based on Day 2 and 3, I see the motives as different. Other people have done the same thing where they go back and re-read earlier posts with a different perception based on future events, and this is really no different.

It's posts like this why I don't know where I stand on you. This is you pushing your opinion (which is fine), but by using an argument that's not completely true (which I don't think is fine). What I can't tell is if that is intentional or not. The more you do this more, the more I think its intentional.

[Timbo]

Puxlut your devo22 vote is for basically null and void. I am not opposed to give him further scrutiny on the next day. However it looks like you can make another vote that might make an impact on this game.

Or keep it on devo22 I understand you staying with your convictions. I have stayed with mine.

Right now my experience in mafia (which usually means I die a violent death lol ) points to mrkajz44. Last vote you felt this vote was a mistake.

I'm not riding on your town coat tails here. Do what you wish, but at this point I believe you have a wasted vote. You might probably believe I have a wasted vote as well.

However you being in the position that you are requires difficult decisions.

Feel free to tell me to pound sand or pull my head from my posterior orifice.

[Timbo]

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

Timbo, you are twisting my words, and implying something that I didn't actually say. Here are my two posts on the third and fourth votes:

I clearly said I feel the fourth vote is scummy. I stand by that statement. When I was talking about the third vote, I said I considered it key, but not necessarily scummy. When read in context, I ended up not liking HG's third vote because of the other factors that happened in the Acitve lynching. Here is a little context on my talk about the HG vote

It's posts like this why I don't know where I stand on you. This is you pushing your opinion (which is fine), but by using an argument that's not completely true (which I don't think is fine). What I can't tell is if that is intentional or not. The more you do this more, the more I think its intentional.

Fair enough. I just felt it was a contradiction that should be addressed.

Since you are my prime suspect I am calling out any discrepancies I see. And if you post more inconstancies I will continue to intentionally call you or any player out.

If I make it a 3 way tie, it's up to devo an Seb. If one or both are scum, they just sat back and watched us get divided. We need to be more united in our votes. I will change my vote tomorrow morning. Bedtime, sorry guys. Been working lots.
Isn't it weird when the sub happened, Maz didn't say: due to personal time restraints... Blah,blah... It was just so abrupt. In the past he's always given a reason.

[GGG]

So this is another day with devo sitting by the sidelines not voting. I will repost my previous thoughts on devo. I like him better then the Starseed Lego combo or mrkajz.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by devo22

so we have 4 votes on activeStick and GirlySports each.

I'm torn here, I could see reasoning for each of them at this point. Like I wrote previously, I found GirlySports' absence really weird. Posts a lot in the beginning, goes missing in the thread for two days and after I vote for because of that, she just pops up again and acts as if nothing has happened ... except for the generic "It's been quiet in here so I didn't post either". Maybe I'm reading too much into this.

And then of course there's activeStick, and I could easily get behind a lynch here as well. It's pretty funny that he himself points to how he's played the game previously, because that comment actually reminded me of the one where he played Medvedev in the NHL game. He also started very slow in that one ... and didn't exactly turn out to be town back then. And even without that background, going only by his posts in this thread, I just have a weird feeling about him.

Since it's midnight already over here and I'm off to bed soon, I'll have to decide and give my vote right now. Going with gut feeling:

vote activeStick

so that's the 5th vote for him. In any case, please allow for a deathbed post!

This is devos first day one vote. From a scum perspective he just votes among the two front runners who he would now both are town provides some reasoning and makes a decision.

Originally Posted by devo22

well ... that wasn't exactly the start we had hoped for -.-

The devo laments the day one results to me this is a minor scum tell

Originally Posted by Mazrim

Vote Count

With 16 alive, it takes 9 votes on any one player to hammer. It takes 6 votes to deadline lynch.

Hasn't Voted (7): devo22, Puxlut, Peanut, Party Elephant, SebC, mrkajz44, GirlySports

Voted:
GirlySports (6): Oling_Roachinen, East Coast Flame, dissentowner, Timbo, bizaro86, Hockeyguy15
Timbo (2): Lego Man, GGG
Peanut (1): squiggs96

The deadline is Monday, June 1st at 10:00 PM Mountain Time. Hammer cannot be dropped before Thursday, May 28th at 10:00 PM Mountain Time.

Day 2 and devo again waits until it's almost decide to vote. Devo votes immediately following this after consenous is almost reached.

Originally Posted by devo22

I want to thank Mazrim for again making me suspicious of everybody and everything. It's amazing what that game can do to you

I have suspicions of a few guys, but the one who still sticks out to me is mrkajz44 ... and that's where my vote goes for now. I agree with East Coast Flame here in regards to mrkajz44 and his drive by posts ... when you post like that, it looks like you're active, but you don't actually add a lot to the discussion. He was one of those who were adamant with moving the vote off Girly on day 2, which makes sense if he's a host: saving Girly would have kept the spore alive, but the lynch cost them a day of possibly turning passengers.

vote mrkajz44

Day 3. The first time devo votes early. This post also attacks mrkajz for a non scummy reason.

Originally Posted by devo22

At this point I'd be somewhat comfortable with any of the top 3 vote getters, they are 3 of my top 4 scum suspects (with Lego Man being the 4th). Could switch my vote to either HG or ECF if needed to guarantee a lynch.

Of the 4, the one I'm still cautious about is HG. We are either cutting of the snake's head here or we're getting rid of a top scum hunter. My opinion of HG almost changes with every post he's making.

Here devo is back to i'll just follow the consenous


I posted the above at the start of the day, there is an error in it as devo did vote girly early in day 1 but his indicisive final post which he called decisive later on really speaks for itself. If anyone is interested in a move to devo I'm game.

[devo22]

I will not discuss my votes again just because GGG has dug them up yet again, I have given my reasons for voting multiple times already.

Plus I wasn't sitting on the sidelines, I was sleeping and working. I am in Europe after all, +8 hours guys. The last post I saw yesterday evening was 1511, then I went to bed and I am currently still at work where I can get online via phone only. But I will stay up late tonight, just like last Friday.

My feelings for mrkajz44 haven't changed and I think unvoting on day 3 was a mistake. I am still highly suspicious of him, so that's where my vote lands for now.

vote mrkajz44

[starseed]

So if I have this right, vote 3 saw PE vote HG15 until mrkazj44 had momentum, then PE switched to ECF.

I was also suspecting HG15 at the time. However, it is a great scum play to target a player that will get no traction only to be able to have the flexibility to switch votes in defense of another scum player.

I will look into the movement on vote 3 again when I am not busy today.

[bizaro86]

Since Seb appears to be the only one who hasn't voted, I'll address my suggestion for voting Party Elephant primarily to you. My mason telepath vibes are getting a potential Starseed/Lego vote from you, based on previous oblique comments about that player.

I think it would be better for you (and anyone else who's thinking of switching) to vote for party. The Lego/Starseed vote is not a bad one, the substitution especially strikes me as suspicious, but here's why I'm keeping my vote on party for now.

Originally Posted by Party Elephant

I'm concerned about starseed. As others have already stated, if Lego was scum then there must have been some pressure from his teammates to keep up or sub out. There's been points in this game where I've struggled to keep up, but I never thought to bow out. Maybe if I had two others pressuring me into it I might've. But that's all speculation.

What really concerns me is his vote for me:


Which is based off a link that I know to be bogus. I addressed this, and even asked starseed about it directly:


to which he hasn't responded. If he's scum, he knows there is no link between me and mrkajz. If he's town, he doesn't know, but if he's town why not just answer the question? He's already voting for me so why not back the vote up by saying he thinks our exchange was staged. Instead, he's chosen to ignore it, which has me leaning scum on him.

So at the risk of being labelled a "revenge vote", I'm gonna go with
vote: starseed

This vote reasoning is pretty scummy. Basically, he starts from the position that since he's town the accusation of him is BS. "I'm voting for him cause he voted for me but don't worry it's not a revenge vote" Um. Ok.

Originally Posted by Party Elephant

I understand that it can look like a scum play. I just wanted to point it out as it's my only defence against the link. You guys can decide whether or not you want to believe it.

This was in response to HG asking about a potential Party/mrkajz link, (which seems credible). Party pointed to a vote/unvote sequence that seems scummy on its own, commenting that he's knows it can look like scum. Notice he doesn't actually deny a mrkajz link.

Finally, I think the voting pattern is highly suspicious. MrKajz votes starseed, and the next vote only a few posts down the page is a Party Elephant vote for starseed. That essentially confirms the link, in my opinion, as they both latch on to the person most likely to get lynched other than themselves.

Party Elephants couched sort-of-denials of the link seem very suspicious to me when confronted with reasonable evidence of a link. My experience from the game when I was mafia was that it was actually pretty hard to out-and-out lie when typing something, especially when directly accused with the truth. I can see why they would be panicking, because if we link them and lynch one who turns host, that's a guaranteed host lynch two days in a row, which would get us 2/3rds of the way to our win condition.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Finally, I think the voting pattern is highly suspicious. MrKajz votes starseed, and the next vote only a few posts down the page is a Party Elephant vote for starseed. That essentially confirms the link, in my opinion, as they both latch on to the person most likely to get lynched other than themselves.

Why not vote for mrkajz44 and push him into the lead then? He was already winning when you made your vote and you thought he could be scum. If you already feel you've confirmed the link, why leave the vote to someone who has a chance of being turned already when you could just vote for the other guy?

Party Elephant, like Lego Man and mrkajz44, went after GirlySports on the first day, but not on the second day despite her receiving the spore and having that added bonus of being potential turned now (still sorry GirlySports). I think there's a good chance at least one of them is scum. Lego Man's vote was probably the most sketchy of the three as it was pretty much "I'm confident GirlySports is town...Vote: GirlySports."

[Oling_Roachinen]

Unvote

Vote: mrkajz44

I'm now afraid that bizaro86 is working with mrkajz44. The pressure is on mrkajz44, bizaro86's has been vocal of the potential for mrkajz44 to be scum and is voting for Party Elephant (at least in part) because of his connection to mrkajz44, so why not just vote mrkajz44? I think you got to be skeptical of people who are happy to say so-and-so is possibly host, but not end up voting for him/her when the time comes without actually defending the person.

If they are indeed working together, if mrkajz44 still ends up lynched bizaro86 can say tomorrow how he always thought he was scum but if he was able to move the vote to Party Elephant and save mrkajz44 tomorrow he could say that "well there goes that connection, I'm going to look elsewhere now."

[GirlySports]

With 14 alive, it takes 8 votes on any one player to hammer. It takes 5 votes to deadline lynch.

Vote Count

Hasn't Voted (2): devo22, SebC

Starseed (4): Oling_Roachinen, Peanut, mrkajz44, Party Elephant
mrkajz44 (4): squiggs96, Timbo, Hockeyguy15, dissentowner
Party Elephant (3): bizaro86 , Starseed, GGG
devo22 (1) : Puxlut


The deadline is Friday, June 12th at 10:00 PM Mountain Time.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Why not vote for mrkajz44 and push him into the lead then? He was already winning when you made your vote and you thought he could be scum. If you already feel you've confirmed the link, why leave the vote to someone who has a chance of being turned already when you could just vote for the other guy?

Party Elephant, like Lego Man and mrkajz44, went after GirlySports on the first day, but not on the second day despite her receiving the spore and having that added bonus of being potential turned now (still sorry GirlySports). I think there's a good chance at least one of them is scum. Lego Man's vote was probably the most sketchy of the three as it was pretty much "I'm confident GirlySports is town...Vote: GirlySports."

MrKajz is already in the lead, so he doesn't need my vote to get lynched. However, I'm concerned that there could be an unvote for mrkajz and a vote for lego/starseed at the end of the day, that would have switched them in the vote order (at the time of my post) with starseed getting lynched.

Thus, my preference would be for mrkajz/party elephant to be one-two in votes.

Now that you've switched off starseed to mrkajz, that is less likely.

Also, I see the link being more from party's side, which makes him the more likely host in my opinion. For example, he voted starseed second, and he's the one with the lame defense. Thus, it's possible that party is host and mrkajz isn't, and party is trying to latch on to someone he knows is town and who looks likely to get lynched. Then he can get one the other hosts to point to the link later and say "they're linked and mrkajz was town so probably party is too."

Finally, I think party has been the quieter of the pair, so even if they're both host (which is the most likely scenario, imo) there's a greater chance he is the captain, which would add value to his lynch compared to getting either the engineer or second in command.

[Peanut]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

With 14 alive, it takes 8 votes on any one player to hammer. It takes 5 votes to deadline lynch.

Vote Count

Hasn't Voted (2): devo22, SebC


mrkajz44 (5): squiggs96, Timbo, Hockeyguy15, dissentowner, Oling_roachinen
Starseed (3): Peanut, mrkajz44, Party Elephant
Party Elephant (3): bizaro86 , Starseed, GGG
devo22 (1) : Puxlut


The deadline is Friday, June 12th at 10:00 PM Mountain Time.

Updated with Oling's vote switch immediately after Girly's update.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

With 14 alive, it takes 8 votes on any one player to hammer. It takes 5 votes to deadline lynch.

Vote Count

Hasn't Voted (2): devo22, SebC

Starseed (4): Oling_Roachinen, Peanut, mrkajz44, Party Elephant
mrkajz44 (4): squiggs96, Timbo, Hockeyguy15, dissentowner
Party Elephant (3): bizaro86 , Starseed, GGG
devo22 (1) : Puxlut


The deadline is Friday, June 12th at 10:00 PM Mountain Time.

Girly, you missed devo22's vote for mrkajz.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by devo22

I will not discuss my votes again just because GGG has dug them up yet again, I have given my reasons for voting multiple times already.

Plus I wasn't sitting on the sidelines, I was sleeping and working. I am in Europe after all, +8 hours guys. The last post I saw yesterday evening was 1511, then I went to bed and I am currently still at work where I can get online via phone only. But I will stay up late tonight, just like last Friday.

My feelings for mrkajz44 haven't changed and I think unvoting on day 3 was a mistake. I am still highly suspicious of him, so that's where my vote lands for now.

vote mrkajz44

And you vote for the front runner of the 3 again.