Our core, with the exception of Giordano are all 18-24 y/o. Would rather try to draft the next stud RW than try to make Kessel work. I was thinking it might be a good idea around the trade deadline, but now just think it would send the wrong message to this group. Kessel would have to come insanely cheap. Think another team will overpay, just don't want it to be the Flames.
People say he could end up like Heatley because he was an elite scoring winger with fitness/conditioning issues and his play fell off a cliff after he turned 30. I could see Kessel's career going in a similar direction if his conditioning doesn't improve.
Heatley was an already slow player who suffered groin injuries that made him even slower. Kessel is one of the fastest North-South players in the league. Any player can regress with injuries. Any player can regress with age. But people comparing Heatley and Kessel might as well be comparing Parros and Gaudreau.
Well year 1 of his big contract he scores 61pts. While he has been ppg the 3 seasons previous he has yet to top 40 goals and hasn't lead his team anywhere significant. He is a great offensive player but when paying a guy $8M that player better be a complete 200ft player which Kessel is not.
Last year he started the season on fire and then in the New Year the entire team became a pile of poo-poo, so I wouldn't put much stock into this season. Also his centreman is Tyler Freaking Bozak. He also has played great in the playoffs whenever he has gotten the chance. Not many players get to 40 anymore. Basically if you are getting 25 goals or more a season you are considered a top-end goal scorer nowadays. And if you guys actually watch a lot of Leaf games it's not just his goal-scoring ability that makes him valuable but also his playmaking ablility, which is often overlooked. He is weak defensively, but a lot of pure goal-scorers are the same.
If we are gonna move Poirer for Phil Kessel, we might as well move Sam Bennett for Joe Thornton and TJ Brodie for Chara and just go for it next year. Maybe Gaudreau for Jagr too if he is still playing next year.
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Last year he started the season on fire and then in the New Year the entire team became a pile of poo-poo, so I wouldn't put much stock into this season. Also his centreman is Tyler Freaking Bozak. He also has played great in the playoffs whenever he has gotten the chance. Not many players get to 40 anymore. Basically if you are getting 25 goals or more a season you are considered a top-end goal scorer nowadays. And if you guys actually watch a lot of Leaf games it's not just his goal-scoring ability that makes him valuable but also his playmaking ablility, which is often overlooked. He is weak defensively, but a lot of pure goal-scorers are the same.
A lot of unrealisitc trade proposals on here.
Totally agree about unrealistic trade proposals on here, but that's what can boards do.
Phil Kessel would get $8M for 7 years as a UFA. The reason there's a problem is the flames wouldn't be the ones handing out that contract. He's not the answer for what ails Calgary.
Calgary needs strong possession players and defensively responsible first pass defensemen. That's not what Kessel is. The flames scored plenty of goals this year, but they didn't own the puck enough. Kessel couldn't do it on Toronto and won't here either
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Kessel has been one of the top point getters in the League for quite a few years and for some reason his salary should be around 6 million a year? You're all nuts.
That's potentially a good chunk of the Flames' future for a player whose cap hit could screw the team over royally in the near future. I think we forget this is year 2 of a rebuild. Trading away multiple picks or prospects for proven players with huge contracts is something you do a few years from now, not today.
Why does he need to be moved out? Played a huge part this past season and was an integral piece of the 1st line. He sure looked hurt to me at the end of the season and into the playoffs. I would be in no hurry to ship him out.
It's tough...you want to see progress over this year, and progress, in one most glaring manner, means a 2nd line (and 2nd PP line) that can relieve the top line with some legitimate, and consistent potency. The fact that the 2nd PP line didn't score a goal since mid -Feb, through the rest of the regular season and playoffs, is atrocious.
If the first line, a stratosphere ahead of the rest of the forwards, wasn't getting points, the Flames weren't doing anything most nights and looked awful.
I think Hudler stays, but there's an argument that if you do want to move forward, moving guys like him and Wideman, both of whom had career years and aren't far away from their next contract, can fetch a very nice return this offseason in particular, especially, as you say, if the goal is to look past this year.
Bennett will be there soon, and much sooner than most guys of his age and ilk, and that's great, but to give him the 2nd line center role before camp in far too presumptuous, and he needs help on that line anyways.
Plus, Calgary wil have some more UFA interest after the feel good season they had...again, strike while the iron is hot, that same perception may not be there next offseason, who knows.
That doesn't mean Kessel, or saddling the team with a lot of vets, but I also don't think it means Treliving sits on his hands and doesn't bolster the roster up front with some proven NHL talent, at least for the 2nd line...and instead waits and hopes that some of the young guys take the step up and everything comes together like it did with Gaudreau and then Bennett late, like expecting that from Poirer. Those players have to be acquired by giving up something, or, spending...
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That doesn't mean Kessel, or saddling the team with a lot of vets, but I also don't think it means Treliving sits on his hands and doesn't bolster the roster up front with some proven NHL talent, at least for the 2nd line...and instead waits and hopes that some of the young guys take the step up and everything comes together like it did with Gaudreau and then Bennett late, like expecting that from Poirer. Those players have to be acquired by giving up something, or, spending...
I wouldn't be shocked to see Treliving add a forward on a short term contract. I have no problem adding a vet here and there I just on't want to see them acquire a player with ridiculous length and money left on the deal, like Kessel's.
Totally agree about unrealistic trade proposals on here, but that's what can boards do.
Phil Kessel would get $8M for 7 years as a UFA. The reason there's a problem is the flames wouldn't be the ones handing out that contract. He's not the answer for what ails Calgary.
Calgary needs strong possession players and defensively responsible first pass defensemen. That's not what Kessel is. The flames scored plenty of goals this year, but they didn't own the puck enough. Kessel couldn't do it on Toronto and won't here either
Yeah, I don't see him being a good fit in Calgary either. I could see him going to Nashville or maybe the Rangers if the Leafs took some contracts back like maybe Nash since there are rumours they aren't happy with his playoffs.
Kessel has been one of the top point getters in the League for quite a few years and for some reason his salary should be around 6 million a year? You're all nuts.
Yup, were nuts because we don't believe in one dimension hockey and good teammates.
I don't necessarily disagree if Kessel was going to put us over the edge. But he's not going to, at least not right now. There are still sizeable holes in the roster that are of greater importance. The marginal value of Kessel over the next best scoring alternative is not as high as you would believe.
If we were three years from now, and the defence and goaltending looked relatively set and we needed a top flight winger then yes, a deal would make sense. But right now, I see it a bit as a spin your tires kind of move.
We didn't lose to Anaheim because we didn't have a Kessel. We lost to Anaheim because their depth at forward way surpassed ours and they mobility on D just wore us down.
Even after his second half struggles, Kessel is 9th is overall points the last 5 years. And that's with Bozak as his centre.
But he's a 5-6 million player? LOL. He's been UFA eligible, so are people seriously saying he'd get that on the open market?
A lot of players would get huge points if they paid no attention to any other part of the game and got preferential ice time, PP time to achieve it , just look north if you need proof.
Again, the Flames don't need an $8m player who would:
1) Tear the team apart
2) Is just plain weird
3) We just don't need him...period.
I just don't think he'd represent good value for the Flames, in terms of cost to acquire and cap hit.
BigT: I think people are saying that they'd consider him on the Flames if he was a bit cheaper, but as is he's too risky for them to acquire. He's inconsistent, rumoured to be lazy and tough to coach. With that in mind he could easily Gary Leeman us, and that term and cap hit would be crippling for the franchise. It represents less of a risk at $5-6 million AAV, but it's still a risk.
I agree with you that someone will pay over the odds to acquire him and will happily pay his cap hit. Nashville does seem like a good fit, for example, as they've been looking for a marquee scoring winger for years. Treliving should have enough sense to steer clear.
I agree they need to get bigger to match up against the top teams. But moving Hudler out to bring in Kessel isn't going to do anything to help that.
I just don't see Kessel as the answer to anything for the Flames right now. They don't have problems scoring. This a year 2 rebuild team, bringing in a massive cap hit for many more years is going against everything that a rebuilding team should be doing.
Build through the draft, make some smart trades and then a few years down the road if they are a legitimate contender that's the time you sell off some of your future to bring in a player like Kessel. Not now.
Sure we're in year 2 of re-build but top liners in their don't often become available, they get re-signed even on bad teams. We do have a scoring problem though, against the Ducks we scored 9 in 5 games, 4 of those came in one game. Besides last years top line no one else was a consistent point producer in the reg season. Bennet has the potential but besides that we need to upgrade.
We were even dominated by the Canucks by more then half game most of the games in that series. You can't stay status quo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phanuthier
If we are gonna move Poirer for Phil Kessel, we might as well move Sam Bennett for Joe Thornton and TJ Brodie for Chara and just go for it next year. Maybe Gaudreau for Jagr too if he is still playing next year.
Because that's what the people in favour are suggesting? trading unproven guys (2 of which are going to have real hard cracking this lineup in Granlund/Klimchuk cause I see them as bottom liners and this team has plenty of them). Ridiculous statement. Give your head a shake.
Even after his second half struggles, Kessel is 9th is overall points the last 5 years. And that's with Bozak as his centre.
But he's a 5-6 million player? LOL. He's been UFA eligible, so are people seriously saying he'd get that on the open market?
Hey BigTuna, if Kessel is so good why do all Leaf fans and Leaf media want to trade him?
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